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Round symbols for illustrating comments about the DYK nomination The following is an archived discussion of Margaret Michaelis-Sachs's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you knowDYK comment symbol (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 10:26, 22 March 2013 (UTC).

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Margaret Michaelis-Sachs

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  • ... that art photographer Margaret Michaelis-Sachs took photos of Jewish market in Cracow in the early 1930s, which "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism"?
  • Comment: woman in history

Created by Ipigott (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC).

  • ALT1 (to reflect updated spelling in article) "... that art photographer Margaret Michaelis-Sachs took photos of the Jewish market in Kraków in the early 1930s, which "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism"?
  • The article has been considerably expanded within five days of nomination
  • It is above the minimum requirement of Characters, about 2,000
  • The article is neutral
  • It has adequate inline citation
  • The DYK is interesting but pushes the limit of the character allowance.

Suggest : "... that Margaret Michaelis-Sachs' photographs of the Jewish market in Kraków in the early 1930s, "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism"?

  • Edits needed
  1. "usual" should surely read "unusual".
  2. "of particular note".... try "of particular significance"
  3. "small set". Have we any idea about how many this is?
  4. The curator Helen Ennis believes.... Never mind what she believes. Use "stated", "wrote" or "said".
  5. Tell the reader what Helen Ennis curated.
Cannot provide numeric details of the small set. Other points OK now. Have suggested shorter ALT2 below.--Ipigott (talk) 09:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

These are minor tweaks. The article is almost ready to go. Amandajm (talk) 08:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

  • ALT2 ""... that Margaret Michaelis-Sachs's photographs of Kraków's Jewish market in the early 1930s "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism"?--Ipigott (talk) 09:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Conflicting ideas about the genitive, - better avoid it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
  • ALT3 (to reflect updated spelling in article) "... that Margaret Michaelis-Sachs took photos of the Jewish market in Kraków in the early 1930s, which "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism"?
It's just a bit longish. The words "art photographer" can go without losing anything. She took photos; that's enough!
Gerda, you've got three options here. You need to chose. Amandajm (talk) 10:46, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Ipigott:
The exhibition curator Helen Ennis believes the images "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism."[2]
  • Curator of what exhibition? You have three exhibitions listed below, but until the reader gets to that section, they don't know that there was any exhibition. And even if they do know, they still don't know what it was that Helen Ennis curated. Tell your reader, a some point, that the artist's work has been exhibited. It should probably get a mention in the Intro.
And then, when you get to this point, you write "Helen Ennis, curator of Sach's retrospective exhibition in 1992, (or whatever) said blah, blah, blah....... (you fill in the correct facts because I can't remember them off the top of my head)
  • Once again, don't write "Helen Ennis believes..." You haven't got a clue what she believes. You only know what she wrote, stated or said. Use one of those words to fit the context. Don't write that she "believes".
Amandajm (talk) 10:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Related to art photographer: I believe it helps to understand that she didn't take them as a tourist. I am only the nominator, you as reviewer can say I approve this and that, the prep builder can chose, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Length. It's 180 characters, and 218 characters including spaces.
This is a DYK, not an introduction. A DYK is intended to grab interest and lead the casual reader to look further. It really doesn't matter, for a DYK whether they grasp the fact that she was an art photographer. Even if they were tourist shots, the significance (in the context of the DYK) is that they "carried the weight of history".
This is about promoting the article. It isn't about summarising the article in a single sentence. A good DYK grabs the reader. They don't even have to understand the meaning, as long as they are drawn to read the article. That is why some DYKs are purposefully ambiguous.
The shorter the better! You really need to cut at least 18 characters out of it. Basically, the "art photographer" bit is superfluous. Amandajm (talk) 11:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think ALT4 will attract much interest. How about (les than 170 characters):

  • ALT5: "... that Margaret Michaelis-Sachs took photos of the Jewish market in Kraków which "carry the weight of history, offering a visual trace of a way of life that was destroyed by fascism."?--Ipigott (talk) 22:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Ready to go! Amandajm (talk) 00:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
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