Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Barr (choreographer)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 13:42, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
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Margaret Barr (choreographer)
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Margaret Barr's Strange Children (ballet), 1955
- ... that Martha Graham–trained choreographer Margaret Barr created over eighty works inspired by topics as diverse as Gandhi, Margaret Mead, the Snowy Mountains Scheme and paintings by Gauguin? As for ALT1, plus R.R. (29 August 1960). "Benefit Concert By Dance Group". The Sydney Morning Herald. Sydney, New South Wales. p. 6: "A Poly-Asian Nursery Rhyme is a ballet of rich and unique humour. Beautifully based on, and reproducing in colour and costumes, the Tahitian paintings of Paul Gauguin."
- ALT1:... that Martha Graham–trained choreographer Margaret Barr created over eighty works inspired by topics as diverse as Gandhi, Margaret Mead, drought and the Melbourne Cup? Australian Dictionary of Biography entry [1]; Harris, Joanne (June 2004). "Margaret Barr, storyteller. Part one: Snowy". Brolga. An Australian journal about dance. AusDance - the Australian Dance Council (20): 43. "Barr produced and staged dance dramas in Australia every year from 1952 until her retirement in 1990. She died on 29 May 1991 and at her funeral on 4 June John Ellis brought to our attention that Barr had created over eighty works throughout her life."; "Teacher's unique contribution to Australian dance". The Sydney Morning Herald. Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. 1 June 1991. p. 11: "Margaret Barr ... went to New York to study with Martha Graham ... her dance presentations ranged over topics as diverse as the work of Mahatma Gandhi and Margaret Mead, drought and the Melbourne Cup."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Roberts Landing
- Comment: Oh dear, I think this is a few hours over 7 days old! (no, I think it's just under - time zones are confusing!) Other hooks would no doubt be possible. There is one possible image in the article (Strange Children) - I hope to get more from the State Library of NSW, and will add one here if I get one of Barr herself.
Created and moved to mainspace by RebeccaGreen (talk). Self-nominated at 20:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC).
- Comment: @RebeccaGreen: I've moved this nom to 31 August as per DYK rules, because that is when the article was created. You listed it under 7 September, the day you created the nomination. As long as the date the article was created was still in the unshaded part of the table (not the pink part) when you made your nomination, it is current, and 31 Aug would have still been unshaded on 7 Sept, so you are fine. The image in the article, "Margaret Barr's Strange Children", is interesting and would be good added to your nom. That image might be more interesting than just a standard portrait photo of Barr. Felixkrater (talk) 16:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you, Felixkrater! I did it in a bit of a rush, thinking that the week had passed by a few hours. I am very glad to know about the shading in the table, thank you, and to be reminded of which date it's supposed to be added to. Re photos, if I am able to obtain more, I think that they will likely be of other performances and perhaps even of Barr dancing. I'm not aware of any standard studio portraits of her - most of the ones I have seen are either of performances or classes. 'Strange Children' was also based on a painting, but I doubt anyone would have heard of the painting or the artist, otherwise I might have included that in the hook. Thanks again, RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
- I have added the 'Strange Children' image here, as suggested. The hook would probably need to be tweaked to include it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:46, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Substantial article, on good sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I like the image, and yes, a hook mention it would be preferred. I'm not sure the average reader will know Martha Graham, perhaps no need to mention her, to avoid "name-dropping". - Minor: I never need more than 3 refs for one fact ;) - This has good article potential, DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 19 September 2019 (UTC)- I guess she could be moved (by an admin) to just "Margaret Barr" which is a redirect to someone else with a different name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:51, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Gerda, thank you very much for your review. I had not thought of name-dropping in regards to Martha Graham - I am quite sure that most readers will not have heard of Margaret Barr, whereas Martha Graham's 7 decade career was in the US, and many readers will have heard of her (as the Martha Graham article says, "her importance and influence to modern dance can be considered equivalent to what Pablo Picasso was to modern visual arts"). So it's a context, and it is also something frequently mentioned in relation to Barr - but it can certainly be left out. I'll do some ALT hooks and get back to you. RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:29, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: Martha Graham is certainly a name to conjure with for American readers, and will give a point of reference for people with even tangential knowledge of dance; I would not remove her. (Formatwise, shouldn't an en dash be used rather than a hyphen: Martha Graham–trained?) BlueMoonset (talk) 17:28, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Clarify: I do know Graham, but I'm so often told that readers wouldn't know names I think everyone should be familiar with (Fanny Hensel was the latest example) that I may have been too sceptical. I kind of wait for a hook with the Strange Children. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- She is very well known in the English speaking world, and this is English wiki after all. Anyone with a even passing interesting in dance, i.e. the ones who would be interested in reading the article, would know who she is. I don't see how a hook could give both an indication of who Barr is and describe the image, while remaining clear, succinct and hooky. Felixkrater (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Clarify: I do know Graham, but I'm so often told that readers wouldn't know names I think everyone should be familiar with (Fanny Hensel was the latest example) that I may have been too sceptical. I kind of wait for a hook with the Strange Children. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: Martha Graham is certainly a name to conjure with for American readers, and will give a point of reference for people with even tangential knowledge of dance; I would not remove her. (Formatwise, shouldn't an en dash be used rather than a hyphen: Martha Graham–trained?) BlueMoonset (talk) 17:28, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Gerda, thank you very much for your review. I had not thought of name-dropping in regards to Martha Graham - I am quite sure that most readers will not have heard of Margaret Barr, whereas Martha Graham's 7 decade career was in the US, and many readers will have heard of her (as the Martha Graham article says, "her importance and influence to modern dance can be considered equivalent to what Pablo Picasso was to modern visual arts"). So it's a context, and it is also something frequently mentioned in relation to Barr - but it can certainly be left out. I'll do some ALT hooks and get back to you. RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:29, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- I have added the 'Strange Children' image here, as suggested. The hook would probably need to be tweaked to include it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:46, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Approving ALT1. It succinctly gets across the diversity of her work and it has an online source. Review as per Gerda Arendt, and I did a double-check anyway as I didn't realise Gerda had already done the review. The nom image and images in the article all fine re licensing; QPQ fine.RebeccaGreen I have taken the liberty of fixing the dash format as per BlueMoonset's comment, and removed the accession numbers (or whatever they were) from the image caption. Gerda Arendt, I have ticked off a review you started, I'm not entirely sure if that is bad form or not - I apologise if it is. Felixkrater (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- (ec) Form or not I don't know, I just used it as a qpq and don't feel I should use it without completing. I also think that the pictured work should be mentioned. The clause (pictured) has to be in a pictured hook. Also: "Martha Graham–trained choreographer" seems a longish construction. Finally: no doubt that Graham is well-known in the dance world, but we also write for Japanese sports fans. - Edit conflict: will respond to below later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you, Felixkrater, BlueMoonset and Gerda Arendt. I'm sorry I don't (yet) have an image of Barr. The only way I could see to include the 'Strange Children' one would be to tweak ALT1 to say:
- ALT1a:... that Martha Graham–trained choreographer Margaret Barr created over eighty works (one pictured) inspired by topics as diverse as Gandhi, Margaret Mead, drought and the Melbourne Cup?
- But I don't mind if you use the image or not. RebeccaGreen (talk) 07:36, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think the image is unusual and should be used and the work named! Will you make an ALT, or should I? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- I've properly formatted the image for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think the image is unusual and should be used and the work named! Will you make an ALT, or should I? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
