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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:28, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Mahendra Nath Pandey

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Mahendra Nath Pandey in 2017
Mahendra Nath Pandey in 2017

5x expanded by Royroydeb (talk). Self-nominated at 16:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC).

  • Comment: According to the guidelines of DYK, hooks that focus on negative aspects of the subject must be avoided. Well, I am aware of it. But in this case, getting imprisoned during the emergency is not something "negative". Emergency is a period during which, civil rights were curbed amongst others. All those people who protested, who were imprisoned during this period are considered as "heroes" in India. So, imprisonment during emergency is not similar to imprisonment due to rape/loot/murder etc.
  • 1. Size check: Before expansion - 121 words. After expansion 379 words. This is not a 5x expansion. Please check and clarify.
5x character expansion and not word expansion. DYK tool shows "article is at 5x now". RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
So on checking character expansion - Before - 121 words (Characters no spaces = 618) (Characters with spaces 731). After - 379 words (Characters no spaces = 1992) (Characters with spaces 2363). This is not 5x expansion even considering character count. Yes, the DYK tool shows "article is at 5x now" but is the DYK tool 100% accurate? Why am I getting different values? Why not just increase the article so as to make sure even on manual expansion the character expansion is correct? Maybe this difference could be because it is counting the date of 5x expansion from 9 March and not 2 March. If we have to consider 7 days from 9 March would 2nd March be included? DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 12:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Did you know/Supplementary guidelines#Supplementary article length rules - Character count includes spaces and excludes lists, tables etc. The most recent version ahead of expansion is this. It has 415 charatcers. The current version has 2293 characters. The ratio is 5.525. The tool User:Dr pda/prosesize.js also confirms the same. Also 2nd March is included. You can check here, the current active nominations run from 10 to 17 march (a difference of 7). RRD (talk) 09:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 2. Spot copyvio check: Fine.
  • 3. It would be nice, if not required, to explain why he was imprisoned and when since the DYK is emphasizing this. The article only says "Pandey spent five months in prison during The Emergency." You have explained something in your comment, but the article of Mahendra Nath Pandey doesn't mention this, and we can't assume everyone knows this.
That is not given in the source. Also other sources say the same. RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes. This is what I mean too. Aren't there any other "older sources" about him describing his experience of the emergency? Or atleast add a note about it on the page for the line related to the emergency with a note with sources saying that "getting imprisoned during the emergency is not something "negative"" as you have mentioned in your comment. You are telling me this, but we can't assume the readers know this. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 12:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
No. Sources only say that he was imprisoned during the emergency. Such a note in the main article is not required as it would bring bias in the article. Also emergency is linked in the article. RRD (talk) 09:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 4. Why does the hook have to say he is 'BJP MP'? Why not just 'Indian MP'? I have no objections really to this, but since Wikipedia caters to an international audience, wouldn't "Indian MP" be better?
Ok. I have no problem in the change. RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 5. The DYK has an image, but "(pictured)" has not been added to the DYK text. Also the caption of the image is currently "Pandey in 2015". I think it would be better just to have his name "Mahendra Nath Pandey" in the caption.
Done.RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 6. The image of Mahendra Nath Pandey is just about ok according to DYK criteria "Consider the quality of the image, and its clarity at 100 by 100 pixels, the size at which DYK images appear on the Main Page." But there are more images of him in Wikipedia commons which can be considered and which are of higher resolution.
Done. RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 7. "He belongs to Bharatiya Janata Party".... belongs sounds weird. This sentence should be copy-edited and rephrased.
Done. @DiplomatTesterMan:. RRD (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 18:11, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
@DiplomatTesterMan: RRD (talk) 09:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
In good faith I will say that all the issues related to this DYK have been sorted out from my side, apart from point number 3. I request a new reviewer to go through it. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 15:34, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Suggestion--For an even better hook, replace BJP MP with his' being a current minister. A minister who got imprisoned is definitely more hooky to an average reader than a random MP who got imprisoned. ∯WBGconverse 06:25, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
ALT1:...that Indian minister Mahendra Nath Pandey was imprisoned during the The Emergency? RRD (talk) 14:26, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Royroydeb, thanks. Former Indian minister is more apt. Passing soon. ∯WBGconverse 12:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed to check review and hooks; previous reviewer has not returned after over two and a half weeks. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:47, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Royroydeb I think it would be better to arrange the hook to show how he progressed from jail into office. Do you mind rewarding the hook in the form of the following: Flibirigit (talk) 07:33, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  • DYK... that NAME... was imprisoned during IMPORTANT EVENT... then became ... IMPORTANT POSITION?
  • DYK... that NAME... was imprisoned during IMPORTANT EVENT... then did ... IMPORTANT ACCOMPLISHMENT?
@Flibirigit:
  • I am adjusting ALT1 slightly for the following reasons: Flibirigit (talk) 15:38, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
  1. The word "that" should appear at the beginning of the hook
  2. Mahendra Nath Pandey was not an MP when he was imprisoned, that came afterword so it was moved later in the sentence
  3. added (pictured) after the name
  4. the word "the" appeared consecutively
  5. I changed the event to "The Emergency in India" since the readership outside of India are not likely to be familiar with the event
  6. Modi ministry shotened to its common name
Approving the reworded hook ALT1a. All other DYK policies are met as per the changes discussed above. Flibirigit (talk) 15:40, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Why was the and replaced with ,  ? Also, keep it short and hooky.~ Winged BladesGodric 14:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Alt 3: ... that Mahendra Nath Pandey (pictured) who was imprisoned during The Emergency, went on to become a minister? ~ Winged BladesGodric 14:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
ALT3 is too short and ambiguous. The word minister means too many things. ALT1a is a better hook. Flibirigit (talk) 14:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
We agree to disagree and I have reverted your strike. Minister in a democracy has a fairly limited scope and being one of them, is far more important than being one of the 552 MPs. Also, 4 links in a DYK hook?! Also, the article about Modi ministry is awful.~ Winged BladesGodric 14:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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