Template:Did you know nominations/Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary
The following is an archived discussion of Mother Mary's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know
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The result was: promoted by Carabinieri (talk) 18:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC).
Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary
[edit]... that Rihanna demonstrates an act of confessionalism on "Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary"?
Created by Calvin999 (talk), Tomica (talk). Nominated by Calvin999 (talk) at 22:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC).
- Comment. The wrong word is clearly used here. It's supposed to be confession (religion), or possibly just confession. StAnselm (talk) 01:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Date, length and QPQ check out fine. I'm still a bit concerned about the hook - "act of confession" would be fine, but the decision would need to be made about whether to link it to confession (religion) or confession. Is it confession as to the police, or confession as to a priest? Clearly, the religious imagery of the song indicates the latter, but I think we should be specific - e.g. "demonstrates an act of religious confession". However, she is not performing the act in a religious sense; "demonstrating" is better (in the sense of "acting out"), but I'm not sure if it's the best word. I think the way to go would be to use the words used in reliable sources. But the sources mentioned in the article are much vaguer - "confessional feel", etc. StAnselm (talk) 02:09, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Well she talks about Jesus and Mary in the song, so it has a religious connotations, so confession (religion) would be fine. I used confessionalism critics used that. How about ALT2: that Rihanna confesses a moment in her life which she regrets on "Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary"? — AARON • TALK 11:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- I think that's much better, but I'm still concerned about the citation. We need a source that says she is confessing in a religious sense. Which reference were you thinking of as the one that supports the hook? StAnselm (talk) 19:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Reviews don't work like that, they aren't black and white or thinking about what context for Wikipedia. Some described it as "extremely confessional" and "a brave confessional" and several more cite Chris Brown as the reason. Considering the religious connotations, the name of the song and references to Mary and Jesus, it's fair to say that it is confessional in the religious sense. Is there a different between religious and non-religious anyway? — AARON • TALK 19:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- I've just struck the original hook: the word "confessionalism" is not only not used in any of the reviews, but given its specific religious meaning according to the Wikipedia article, it's not appropriate here. Indeed, I'd strongly recommend that the word be removed from the article entirely. Like StAnselm, I'm less sure than Aaron is that the meaning in the reviews of "confessional" is clearly religious: the lyrics do invoke Jesus and Mary, but the reviews don't specifically do so, and there are secular meanings of "confessional" that also work in these contexts. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- Several reviews do say confessional/confessing of some sort and that she confesses on the track. So it can remain in the article and hook, but just change the wiki link from religious to normal. — AARON • TALK 01:04, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- How about ALT3: that Rihanna's song "Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary" features references to famous actress Marilyn Monroe and actor James Dean? — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, this is a better way to go. However, Marilyn Monroe and James Dean are the only people mentioned, so the "including" bit is misleading. StAnselm (talk) 20:03, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- How about ALT3: that Rihanna's song "Love Without Tragedy / Mother Mary" features references to famous actress Marilyn Monroe and actor James Dean? — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- Several reviews do say confessional/confessing of some sort and that she confesses on the track. So it can remain in the article and hook, but just change the wiki link from religious to normal. — AARON • TALK 01:04, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- I've just struck the original hook: the word "confessionalism" is not only not used in any of the reviews, but given its specific religious meaning according to the Wikipedia article, it's not appropriate here. Indeed, I'd strongly recommend that the word be removed from the article entirely. Like StAnselm, I'm less sure than Aaron is that the meaning in the reviews of "confessional" is clearly religious: the lyrics do invoke Jesus and Mary, but the reviews don't specifically do so, and there are secular meanings of "confessional" that also work in these contexts. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- Reviews don't work like that, they aren't black and white or thinking about what context for Wikipedia. Some described it as "extremely confessional" and "a brave confessional" and several more cite Chris Brown as the reason. Considering the religious connotations, the name of the song and references to Mary and Jesus, it's fair to say that it is confessional in the religious sense. Is there a different between religious and non-religious anyway? — AARON • TALK 19:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- I think that's much better, but I'm still concerned about the citation. We need a source that says she is confessing in a religious sense. Which reference were you thinking of as the one that supports the hook? StAnselm (talk) 19:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
