Template:Did you know nominations/La Folia Barockorchester
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
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La Folia Barockorchester
... that a 2021 concert of La Folia Barockorchester from Dresden at the Rheingau Musik Festival was broadcast from Eberbach Abbey by several stations?Source: [1] (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Karnabo
- Comment: sorry, I'm two days late, - RL + bad memory
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 10:51, 3 September 2021 (UTC).
- Comment (not a review): Gerda Arendt the article says, without a reference, that LFBO is named after La Folia, which redirects to a musical theme, but https://www.lafoliabarockorchester.net/lfbo-1 refers to a term “la folia” not the musical theme. TSventon (talk) 11:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- The two go together, I had no time to clarify, and won't until next week, sorry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:46, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- TSventon: La Folia means not only the theme but the compositions based on it, described by ref Düren (now used) as "eine Form, die wildes und kühnes Spiel mit großer Freiheit zur Kreativität erlaubt" - a form that permits wild and bold play with great freedom to creativity, "play" not meaning instrumental playing but the playful music variation. Please check if it's now clear enough. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt: thank you, that is helpful, I see you have been busy over the last two weeks. TSventon (talk) 09:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for understanding. I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Karnabo. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:48, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt: thank you, that is helpful, I see you have been busy over the last two weeks. TSventon (talk) 09:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
- Comment (not a review): Gerda Arendt the article says, without a reference, that LFBO is named after La Folia, which redirects to a musical theme, but https://www.lafoliabarockorchester.net/lfbo-1 refers to a term “la folia” not the musical theme. TSventon (talk) 11:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Full review needed now that QPQ has been supplied. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Might be a tad over seven days, but I think that's fine. Long enough, neutral, and mostly sourced to the best of my understanding. I made a slight copyedit to the lead. I think the hook needs tweaking, as the meaning is a bit unclear to those who do not understand the various nouns involved. (For example, I suggest dropping "from Dresden".) Gerda, could you tell me what exactly the 'hooky' bit is? Is it the broadcasting from an Abbey? CMD (talk) 11:31, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I don't want to drop Dresden, as the focus on music from the Dresden court is what they stand for. It's remarkable but perhaps not hooky - I'm known not to care much about hookiness - that not only they appeared at that notable festival, but also were broadcast, and then even by several stations. - I commented out the uncited soloists before I saw your note. They are not critical to the article. I have no time to dig up refs for them right now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- To answer the question in an edit summary: typically such lists (which I dislike, but I just translated) go by alphabet, but here, I had two different references, so went by alphabet within reference. It would be better to say precisely who performed which music, but back to no time ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:51, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda, I think that does not come through right now. Hookiness should convey what is remarkable. The "from Dresden", "at the Rheingau", and "from Eberbach" form a somewhat confusing string for a non-German speaker. Is there a way to rearrange the elements? CMD (talk) 14:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I said before I don't care about hookiness. Compromise:
- ALT1: ... that La Folia Barockorchester from Dresden performed at Eberbach Abbey in a broadcast concert of the 2021 Rheingau Musik Festival?
- Defending: Dresden may be for many readers the first word they know, because La Folia is Italian/Spanish and Barockorchester is German. I don't like the name of the ensemble but what can we do? Eberbach Abbey is widely known beyond classical music as a World Heritage Site, and as the location of the film The Name of the Rose. The festival is also widely known, and those who don't know can learn something new. Any 2021 performance is a gift, hooky or not. It was the first with singing after the lockdown but I wouldn't know where to put that in the limited space. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- This should not be a search for a compromise, but a solution. If Dresden is to be included, why not ... that the Dresden-based La Folia Barockorchester...? That eliminates one from/at X, while also indicating what Dresden means. Shifting 2021 is a good idea, let's keep that shifted 2021, as it breaks up another from/at X. With both of those variations, I think either ALT0 or ALT1 would work much better. CMD (talk) 16:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I try to avoid links before the bold hook but as you wish. Could you please word a version that would please you? You can still approve as long no new facts are involved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:24, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- This should not be a search for a compromise, but a solution. If Dresden is to be included, why not ... that the Dresden-based La Folia Barockorchester...? That eliminates one from/at X, while also indicating what Dresden means. Shifting 2021 is a good idea, let's keep that shifted 2021, as it breaks up another from/at X. With both of those variations, I think either ALT0 or ALT1 would work much better. CMD (talk) 16:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda, I think that does not come through right now. Hookiness should convey what is remarkable. The "from Dresden", "at the Rheingau", and "from Eberbach" form a somewhat confusing string for a non-German speaker. Is there a way to rearrange the elements? CMD (talk) 14:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- ALT2:
... that a concert by Dresden-based La Folia Barockorchester at the 2021 Rheingau Musik Festival was broadcast from Eberbach Abbey by several stations? - ALT3:
... that the Dresden-based La Folia Barockorchester performed at Eberbach Abbey in a broadcast concert as part of the 2021 Rheingau Musik Festival?
Sorry for the delay. CMD (talk) 15:35, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Of the two, I prefer ALT2. Isn't a broadcast concert one without audience? (English isn't my first language.) Both have Dresden before the bolded link. but I'm sort of tired ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:47, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm afraid my musical knowledge lies mostly within the realm of private practice and appreciation. No issues with a promoter tweaking Dresden, broadcast concert, or any other part of any of the hooks. Noting author preference for AL2. CMD (talk) 15:54, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: CMD's CN tag should be addressed before this hook is promoted. 21:36, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- In my opinion, a concert being broadcast happens all the time and is not that interesting, and adding "by several stations" to me indicates that its broadcast was limited, since "several" is indeterminate but not very many, and could be as little as two. So I've struck the hooks that use that particular phrase. May I suggest that a much more interesting hook would be the anonymous works that survived multiple fires, that (according to source 2) La Folia "deliberately didn't even try to find out the authors of the individual pieces" (Google translate of part of the Geisler quote). That "didn't even try" fact would need to be added to the article, if it fits a hook, but the multiple fires fact might be sufficient even without it. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:21, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you, both. I added refs for the recordings and for that intentional leaving anonymous. However, I prefer to say what I saw/heard and found great. I added also a ref for the "Radiofestival", one program of the public radio cultural stations in Germany (many, several - not sure). It wasn't just a radio concert, but one of the selected few from this years summer festivals, beginning with the opening (at the same location) as the President's charity concert, - we just don't have room for all that in a hook. The teaser for the concert was Anna Prohaska whom I had come to hear, and the ensemble was a discovery on top! In case we want to go the same way (but it's a bit unfair to the other three singers):
ALT4: ... that soprano Anna Prohaska and La Folia Barockorchester performed at Eberbach Abbey for the 2021 Rheingau Musik Festival and the ARD Radiofestival?- We could also go quirky and contrast the title "Glorious Revolution" with the sacred building. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:56, 24 September 2021 (UTC)- @BlueMoonset:, I'll promote once you sign off. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 06:41, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset what's happening with this nom? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 05:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- theleekycauldron, I pointed out issues with the existing (approved) hooks; I hadn't volunteered to review any new hooks. Perhaps you should do that, and let some one else promote. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:07, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
- My reviewing an article usually means that it takes a week or so longer to get promoted, and this nom's been hanging for a while. I'll put out a call for a new reviewer to check the new hooks and verify that the cn tag has been addressed at WT:DYK and relist this nom. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
- I haven't had a chance to take a look at the article yet and see if the citation issues have been addressed, but I have to agree with BlueMoonset that the currently proposed hooks aren't broadly interesting, especially when other potentially much more interesting angles (such as the fire and the author anonymity) could be used here. I've struck ALT3 and ALT4 as they do not address at all the issues that were raised by BlueMoonset. Inviting Theleekycauldron and Chipmunkdavis to suggest hooks on either the fire or anonymity angles and we'll see where we can go from here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hi there! Some alt suggestions:
- ALT5:
... that the La Folia Barockorchester made the first recordings of rediscovered anonymous violin concertos that had survived multiple fires? - ALT6: ... that members of the La Folia Barockorchester made no attempt to find the authors of anonymous violin concertos they found?
- ALT5:
- I prefer ALT5, and ALT6 would need to be included in the article. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 17:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for the offer but the fire has really nothing to do with the orchestra's playing, sorry. We should probably have an article about the collection, and use the idea then. The ALT6 fact is in the article, and I duplicated the ref. "members" is not referenced, Dresden should be mentioned to give them a location, therefore:
- ALT6a: ... that when La Folia Barockorchester made first recordings of anonymous violin concertos found in the Dresden Hofkirche, they chose not to find out the identity of the composers? [2][3] --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:07, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for ALT6a, it's a pretty good hook. This is just a note Gerda, but I've noticed that you've been making a lot of late-by-a-day-or-two nominations lately,. While usually we grant IAR exemptions to nominations late by a day or two, given that you've made multiple of them at this point, I would highly suggest that moving forward you try to nominate articles on time instead of relying on IAR exemptions. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:48, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am guilty of nominating in time but when the article is not yet ready (three of those, indeed, over the weekend). I wouldn't know when I was late after this one, but really don't know what's worse. A friend was banned, I went to a funeral last week, was away for the long weekend, had to deal with 4 Recent deaths articles - and those can't wait or are no longer recent - such as today's Edita Gruberová which will take some more hours to polish today: I confess that my interest in DYK is reduced, and perhaps I better drop out. But before, I want to write an article with a DYK of this stunning performance which you don't permit me with the orchestra. One of the other singers, perhaps. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:23, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda, another thing I noticed is that in many of your nominations, you have described how you have ongoing DYK and RD nominations, as well as are planning to create or expand other articles. For example, in this nomination, you mention that you have been working on four RD nominations, and that these pending nominations are a factor as to why you end up nominating articles for DYK slightly late often, or why nomination issues aren't immediately addressed. Such comments are usually not relevant to the current discussion and may give others the impression that you are bragging about your nominations. In the future I would suggest you avoid making such comments unless there's good reason to do so. Thank you. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:11, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- I don't know what you do when late, I explain why. Call that bragging if you have to. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, is there something preventing you from finishing the review now that ALT6a has been provided? Should I call for a new reviewer? BlueMoonset (talk) 23:22, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Apologies for the delay! I actually like ALT6a and was planning to approve it, I just got a bit too busy to return to this nomination yesterday. I'll complete the full review later today, hopefully. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, is there something preventing you from finishing the review now that ALT6a has been provided? Should I call for a new reviewer? BlueMoonset (talk) 23:22, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- I don't know what you do when late, I explain why. Call that bragging if you have to. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda, another thing I noticed is that in many of your nominations, you have described how you have ongoing DYK and RD nominations, as well as are planning to create or expand other articles. For example, in this nomination, you mention that you have been working on four RD nominations, and that these pending nominations are a factor as to why you end up nominating articles for DYK slightly late often, or why nomination issues aren't immediately addressed. Such comments are usually not relevant to the current discussion and may give others the impression that you are bragging about your nominations. In the future I would suggest you avoid making such comments unless there's good reason to do so. Thank you. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:11, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am guilty of nominating in time but when the article is not yet ready (three of those, indeed, over the weekend). I wouldn't know when I was late after this one, but really don't know what's worse. A friend was banned, I went to a funeral last week, was away for the long weekend, had to deal with 4 Recent deaths articles - and those can't wait or are no longer recent - such as today's Edita Gruberová which will take some more hours to polish today: I confess that my interest in DYK is reduced, and perhaps I better drop out. But before, I want to write an article with a DYK of this stunning performance which you don't permit me with the orchestra. One of the other singers, perhaps. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:23, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for ALT6a, it's a pretty good hook. This is just a note Gerda, but I've noticed that you've been making a lot of late-by-a-day-or-two nominations lately,. While usually we grant IAR exemptions to nominations late by a day or two, given that you've made multiple of them at this point, I would highly suggest that moving forward you try to nominate articles on time instead of relying on IAR exemptions. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:48, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- I took one more look at the article and it appears that the earlier referencing issues have been addressed. As CMD has already accomplished most of the review, I'm merely signing it off and approving ALT6a. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:11, 21 October 2021 (UTC)