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Template:Did you know nominations/Kathleen MacLeod

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 22:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Kathleen MacLeod

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Created/expanded by LauraHale (talk). Self nom at 11:17, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

  • I believe the hook should read "2011/2012 All-Star"? "Grand final" seems to be an Australian term, and it should either be wikilinked or just be plain "league champion". Also, the article says "helping guide her team to the WNBL's championship", which to me could be interpreted as she made the championship game without saying whether her team won or not. The article should be reworded to reflect that she won. It's my understanding that MacLeod is among the finalist for the national team for the Olympics, but the candidates are still being pared down and the final team is not set. Is it misleading to say she is a member of the team already?—Bagumba (talk) 05:38, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Replying on behalf of Laura, who is in Argentina right now.
  1. 2011/2012 is correct
  2. Don't think Grand Final should be linked, as it should be generally understandable (I'm a Canadian and I got that with no problem)
  3. Can't find the original source (FN13), so an alt may be necessary.
  4. Agree, it may be misleading.
ALT1: ... that 2012 Australia women's national basketball team hopeful Kathleen MacLeod played in Hungary and France for a year?
  • Comment: I agree with Bagumba on "Grand final": it didn't mean anything to this American, the term could have (for all I know) a special meaning in Australia, and it isn't even used in the article. Please either link it or drop it from the hook. Actually, I'm not happy with the hook wording in general: it implies to me that she's the one person in the WNBL who is this combined thing, rather than a person who fits in both of these categories (though removing the possessive would probably fix that problem). BlueMoonset (talk) 21:35, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure why ALT1 uses "hopeful": FN21 shows the team with her on it, and the subpage with MacLeod's info calls her a member of the team—Opals squad is the national team—not only this year but every year going back to 2008. I'd frankly delete FN13, as the info is fully covered by FN21. You might want to say "played a year each in Hungary and France"; before I read the article, I thought she'd played a year total between the two countries. Also, FN3 is a bare link and needs fixing; for the text that references it, "Pilates" is a proper noun. (Is that sentence even necessary?) BlueMoonset (talk) 00:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Done all. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:48, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I would go with ALT1, as the team is being pared down. It went from 19 to 15 players and will be reduced further by May 30. Not sure what the Olympic team size is usually. Unless being part of national team does not imply being part of Olympic team. In the US at least in an Olympic year, I would not expect a player that was not on the Olympic team to be referred to as being on the national team. Not sure if same would apply to other countries.—Bagumba (talk) 05:02, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • It appears that she may be part of the national team, and the Olympic team is chosen out of the national team. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • An an American, I freely admit this may be the proper terminology as used in Australia. However I see this source refer to "OPALS MAY TRAINING CAMP SQUAD", and based on usage of "national team" in the US, I'm not able to approve this (perhaps due to my own naivety) unless she has made the final Olympic roster. I would be more comfortable with something like "2012 Australian Olympic team hopeful."—Bagumba (talk) 06:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • See, now I'm confused. BlueMoonset suggests that she's on the team, and you suggest she's not. As the phrasing is not "Olympic team", I do not see anything wrong with ALT2. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • What Bagumba's suggesting is that Kathleen may be struck from the team at some future date and not play with them in the Olympics. The fact remains, however, that the various sources all list her as being on the team now. To refuse to approve the hook because of some possible future event isn't appropriate, especially as it does not say Olympic, but National. She is currently an Opal. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • My concern is whether it is accurate to say she is on the "national team" as opposed to the "national team training camp squad", as referred in the above mentioned reference. As an example, I'm used to stories in the USA where an athlete is mentioned as "finalist" or similar term and not a "national team member", such as here with Kevin Love. Again, this may be a slight difference in terminology from country to country; however, the Australia Basketball reference I mentioned did qualify with "training camp squad" as well. I'd prefer a reword, but someone else can approve if the consensus is this is insignificant.—Bagumba (talk) 19:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Dude, she appears as a member of the squad on the Opals official page. Others who are just training or trying out do not. The "Olympic squad" is more specific that "national team". Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Here's the reduced "SQUAD CAMP" roster from 15 May. Players such as Rohanee Cox and Natalie Hurst are not listed on that article, but still continue to be listed on the "official page" you provided. To me it looks like Cox and Hurst and others are training or trying out for the team.—Bagumba (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
        • For the Olympic team, not the national team. They are already members of the national team. The Olympic rules require a smaller team. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:45, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • So it is customary in Australia to refer to a player being on the national team even if she ultimately is not picked to represent the country in an international competition? If so, it seems to be different from terminology on American national team athletes. I personally think the terms should be normalized for the DYK, but someone else can approve if they think otherwise.—Bagumba (talk) 22:27, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Maybe. I cannot comment on American national team athletes, but yes, that is indeed the case. You have to remember that the various teams enter in many different competitions, not just the Olympic games. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:46, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
      • I did consider that, but I think in a given year there is usually only one major international competition, which for 2012 is the Olympics.—Bagumba (talk) 01:54, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Striking original and ALT1 hooks for the reasons expressed above; ALT2 is approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:13, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
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