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Template:Did you know nominations/John–Eleanor Rykener

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

John/Eleanor Rykener

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I approve this hook. Catrìona (talk) 11:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
  • References:
  1. For 1394: Karras, R. M. & Boyd, D. L., 'Ut cum meliere: A Male Transvestite Prostitute in Fourteenth-Century London', in Fradenburg, L. & Freccero, C. (eds), Premodern Sexualities (London, 1996), pp. 99–116, p.111.
  2. For "known as Eleanor": Dinshaw, C., Getting Medieval: Sexualities and Communities, Pre- and Postmodern (London, 1999), p.101.
  3. For "ignominious vice": Janin, H., Medieval Justice: Cases and Laws in France, England and Germany, 500-1500 (North Carolina, 2009), p.118.
  4. For "anal sex": Goldberg, J., 'John Rykener, Richard II, and the Governance of London', Leeds Studies in English 45 (2014), pp.49–70, p. 49.
  5. For "friars": Karras, R. M. & Boyd, D. L., . 'Ut cum meliere: A Male Transvestite Prostitute in Fourteenth-Century London', in Fradenburg, L.; Freccero, C. (eds) Premodern Sexualities (London, 1996), 99–116, pp.111–112.
  6. For "nuns": Blud, V. The Unspeakable, Gender and Sexuality in Medieval Literature, 1000-1400 (Woodbridge, 2017), p.106.

Improved to Good Article status by Serial Number 54129 (talk). Self-nominated at 15:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC).

  • I'll review this; comments to follow shortly. Catrìona (talk) 04:51, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
  • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
  • Interesting: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Very interesting article and—wow!—what a hook. It looks to me like you haven't finished your QPQ yet. Once that's done, I will be delighted to endorse. Catrìona (talk) 05:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC) Catrìona (talk) 05:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry — I'm new to DYK review and must not have been using the QPQ tool correctly. You're now approved. Catrìona (talk) 11:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
@Catrìona: No problem at all, it does kind of blur in with my list of refs there. Many thanks! And always good to see fresh faces (as it were) helping around here. Take care! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 11:36, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
  • IMO the hook doesn't need to be worded so explicitly. I suggest:
  • ALT1: ... that in 1394 John Rykener, known as "Eleanor", was found committing an "ignominious vice" in Cheapside and later confessed to having had sex with both friars and nuns? Yoninah (talk) 09:50, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
  • If the nominator has an objection to the ALT, please state it rather than reverting the template. Yoninah (talk) 10:01, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I like Alt1 better than the original, but both are acceptable in my opinion. Catrìona (talk) 21:28, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
  • The discussion about this template at WT:DYK has been archived, without any response from the nominator. @Serial Number 54129: do you want to withdraw this nomination or not? The original hook is too graphic for the main page and ALT1 has been suggested. Please respond ASAP. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 13:04, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
  • OK. I'll ask the other DYK editors what they think at WT:DYK. Yoninah (talk) 17:29, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Consensus at the discussion page is for this hook:
  • ALT3: ... that in 1394, John "Eleanor" Rykener was apprehended for committing a "detestable unmentionable and ignominious vice" in Cheapside and later confessed to having had sex with both friars and nuns?
  • Restoring tick for offline source per Catriona's review. Yoninah (talk) 20:16, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
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