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Template:Did you know nominations/Iso Rae, Jessie Traill

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:55, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

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Iso Rae, Jessie Traill

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Jessie Traill in 1936

Created by Hamiltonstone (talk). Self nominated at 14:07, 7 May 2014 (UTC).

  • Not yet ready. The hook is deceptive in its linking. The actual claims within the article are dubious and are one account. What of Grace Cossington Smith and Hilda Rix Nicholas?Please check it. As a result of a simply cursory check, the claims of the article are not exhaustive and the hook is flawed. While the hook doesn't hold the flawed statement, its part of the verifiability of the article which DYK should check because "only two Australian women artists to portray the war in France"... part is a big claim that is not accurate. It needs some work, but could turn out nice. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:12, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm happy to check things and tweak, so long as we're looking at issues for DYK, and not higher standards. The hook is deliberately written that way to make it intriguing and 'hooky'. Can you explain why you think the hook is "deceptive"? Hilda Rix Nicholas left France immediately that war broke out and as far as the sources I have read indicate, did not return during the war. Grace Cossington Smith was in Australia for the duration of the war. I have revised the text to read "...to portray the war while in France" / "...to portray the war while living in France", to make clearer what I intended to say, that they were the only ones actually in France when painting the war (Rix created works that represented the war in France, but wasn't there). Is that adequate? hamiltonstone (talk) 07:02, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I think its best practice to be open an honest about the link and not link to somewhat confusing or misleading articles. "a war" should not go to "World War I" and "war artists" should not go to "Australian official war artists". I understand the hook aspect, but I disagree in deliberately misleading the reader to target pages. I expect "war artists" to go to "war artists" and "a war" to be a bad link to "War". And I know the content aspect is a bit going beyond the point, but Nicholas apparently painted in her grief before returning to Melbourne in 1918 (so she didn't immediately leave), her husband died in November 1916. Though I agree the tweaking is by all means fair since I didn't immediate dig up war pictures in 1917. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:11, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • We have different views about hooks - i've always liked them to be interesting and don't mind the slightly surprising links, in a way that i would not support in actual article text itself. But i have tweaked it a little to make the second of the links closer to its actual title. Maybe others will express a view. As to Nicholas, you are right about her painting in her grief, but she did all of that painting in England, not in France. The way I had drafted the article originally wasn't accurate, though, and thank you for picking that up. Regarding the claim they were the only two actually in France, I'm pretty confident we can rely on an article by a qualified art historian and curator from the Australian War memorial. Thanks very much for checking out the articles. hamiltonstone (talk) 23:15, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • New enough (for 7 May) and long enough. Hook checks out online with Betty Snowden citation #4 for Iso Rae, and #9 for Jessie Traill. QPQ OK. Disambig and external link tools do not work for this double nom, but I found no disambig links or dead external links by checking manually. (But somebody please correct typo in citation #16 for Jessie Traill?) No copyvio found, and the long quote is out of copyright. I am satisfied that the issues raised in the above discussion are now resolved. Two interesting articles, fully cited. Good to go. --Storye book (talk) 11:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
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