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Template:Did you know nominations/Introduction to the Enemy

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Jolly Ω Janner 05:53, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

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Introduction to the Enemy

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Created by SteveStrummer (talk). Self-nominated at 03:04, 2 February 2016 (UTC).

  • Length, date, hook, plagiarism checks, and everything else checks out. @SteveStrummer:, it might not be a bad idea to talk about how Fonda's reaction was kept in the film, as well, maybe stating, "that during the filming of the Vietnam War documentary Introduction to the Enemy, an mine went off in front of Jane Fonda, whose reaction to the death was kept in the film?" Kevin Rutherford (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
  • I agree that ALT1 is a better hook, but in order to qualify, an inline cite needs to be added after the sentence about Fonda's reaction being left in the film. The source for her quote in the next sentence doesn't mention this fact. Yoninah (talk) 23:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
  • I've added an inline citation at the end of the hook-related sentence. The citation ("Bladen1975") includes this quotation from Jane Fonda: "...panning the camera onto my face during that scene when a soldier is blown up by a landmine while tilling the soil is very real and one of the most powerful in the film." SteveStrummer (talk) 00:40, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • For accuracy, I've also amended the ALT1 text to read "near" rather than "in front of". Thanks, SteveStrummer (talk) 00:57, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Thank you. But I still don't see that fact in the clipping. Is only part of the clipping visible? Yoninah (talk) 01:01, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Yes, I see that paragraph, but in the newspaper she seems to be talking about something in the plot, while in the hook it sounds like something that was unplanned, and the clipping says nothing about the director deciding to keep her reaction to the death in the film. Yoninah (talk) 12:51, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • The documentary was essentially unscripted: there is no "plot", and certainly the man's accidental death was "unplanned". When Fonda says her reaction was "very real", she's saying it wasn't acting, and when she says it's "in the film", she's saying it was left in the final cut. SteveStrummer (talk) 17:49, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • OK, but you need a source that clearly says what's in the hook, or use a different hook. Yoninah (talk) 19:40, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • There's nothing at all unclear there: the hook says that Fonda is seen in the film reacting to an unexpected death nearby, and that's exactly what the citation says too. SteveStrummer (talk) 20:00, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • OK. When you boil it down to the basics, the hook does reflect the article and source. But I think you need to change the article text, which is saying much more than the source says. An undetected landmine exploded during production, killing a nearby man offscreen as cameras rolled – how do you know it was undetected? Where does it say the man was offscreen? Wexler captured Fonda's horrified reaction, and this was left in the final cut – footnote 7 says she cried, not that she was horrified. Yoninah (talk) 20:43, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • The landmine is described in sources as unexploded and buried in a field: I think it's fair to call it "undetected" because otherwise no one would have stepped on it. The fact that the death occurs offscreen is manifestly evident, because an actual fatality onscreen would have made this a snuff film. And I think it's fair literarily to describe Fonda as "horrified" when she cries over a violent death on set. I hope you'll reconsider your evaluation, because I'm only trying to avoid close paraphrasing of the sources, and I really don't think any of this wording is misleading. SteveStrummer (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • OK. I'm sorry to give you a run for your money. If you are avoiding close paraphrasing in the article, great. It's just that I didn't see anything about An undetected landmine exploded during production, killing a nearby man offscreen in the sources given. Perhaps it's at the very end of the Variety article which I didn't get to; it's not in the NY Times ref at all. As I mentioned in my previous post, the ALT1 hook faithfully reflects the sources, so it's good to go. Rest of review per Kevin Rutherford. Yoninah (talk) 22:00, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
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