Template:Did you know nominations/Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann

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~~... that Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann wrote a collection of Christmas carols with background information about them, and a book about rural life in the 19th century which was not idyllic?~~ Source: both books have their source.

Reviewed: Klein Heidelberg

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 21:05, 1 January 2017 (UTC).

QPQ done. New enough, long enough. Neutral. Her death needs a cite. AGF on close paraphrasing due to offline/foreign language sources. Just to make sure, can you clarify where you got the description of Landleben im 19. Jahrhundert from? Does the source explicitly state that the goal of the text is to contrast with the idyllic view of farmlife? We should only report that if covered in reliable sources, to avoid turning the encyclopedia into one of those annoyingly intrusive English courses that assigns meaning to a text rather than letting the reader generate their own meaning. The hook is not particularly concise nor well-worded, in my opinion. "With background information about them" is vague and a bit confusing, and we appear to be stuffing two hooks into one. Could you propose a more punchy hook with a bit more concise wording? Ping me upon response, please; I like to follow up on these nominations with just a couple issues. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:25, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

I almost forgot about her, written for Christmas, when we sang from her book, - a first for me, and great pleasure. How would you say in better English that each carol is accompanied by a period illustration, background information about its author(s) and the history of its creation? And how to source other than the book itself? And still stay within 200 chars?

ALT1: ~~... that Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who received her doctor's degree in Berlin in 1940 for her studies of Josefsdorf in Slawonia, wrote an anthology of Christmas carols in 1982?~~ Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:19, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm coming up rather blank on wording ideas for this hook. I think a second set of eyes would be helpful. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:58, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I think her book about Christmas carols should be in it, because the many red links for her as a major reference for their history and meaning was what made me write the article. The early studies of other cultures in Nazi times, she traveling herself, are also special. Changing job from East Berlin to Marburg because of The Wall is unusual but says less about her work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:00, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I've struck ALT1 for being too dull. Here are some ideas:
ALT2: ~~... that Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann published a book of 151 German Christmas carols together with historical information and a period illustration for each piece?~~
ALT3: .~~.. that German folklorist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann shattered the idyllic view of 19th century rural life in her 1987 book Landleben im 19. Jahrhundert?~~ Yoninah (talk) 22:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Too tired to think about it, - tomorrow. Not every song has a period illustration. She is THE reference, - how can we say that. - "shatters" sounds a bit too dramatic. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

I was just suggesting alts based on what you wrote in the article. If she was THE reference, maybe you should write that. Maybe you could add other things from the sources that would make a good hook. Yoninah (talk) 22:43, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for trying, - I thought I wrote above "the many red links for her as a major reference for their history and meaning" made me write the article, - before I even knew her book. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

The following is an idea - reducing her to Christmas seems to be unfair -, better wording welcome:

ALT4: ... that the German anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who researched Slavonian villages around 1940, published a collection of 151 illustrated Christmas carols that is also a reference book? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:50, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, I don't see why the two aspects of her work go together, and neither seems really interesting. Yoninah (talk) 22:14, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

She enjoyed a long life, and did not only one thing. But I like to please.

ALT5: ... that the anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann made field trips to villages in Slavonia, Transylvania and Turkey, focusing on the relation between different ethnic groups? Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for liking to please. What do you think about:
ALT6: ~~... that the anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who made field trips to villages in Slavonia, Transylvania, and Turkey, also met Jews rescued from the Theresienstadt concentration camp?~~ Yoninah (talk) 00:51, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

One word less, and I wonder how we could include "at the time when they were rescued", many people met them decades later:

ALT7: ~~... that the anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who made field trips to villages in Slavonia, Transylvania, and Turkey, met Jews rescued from the Theresienstadt concentration camp?~~ --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:11, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Here's better wording (I also edited it in the article):
ALT7a: ... that the anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who made field trips to villages in Slavonia, Transylvania, and Turkey, met Jews after they were liberated from the Theresienstadt concentration camp? Yoninah (talk) 11:36, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Rob, what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:58, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: That one's over the character limit (201 - but preferably should be shorter). Could we cut out one of the field trip locales and call it a day? ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 18:05, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

I suggest to pipe the camp, people will know the name, or not be interested:

ALT7b: ... that the anthropologist Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann, who made field trips to villages in Slavonia, Transylvania, and Turkey, met Jews after they were liberated from Theresienstadt? - (my last open nom for an article written in 2016) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:10, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Of course it makes sense to shorten the name. Calling on another reviewer to finish the review for ALT7c, since I suggested the hook. Yoninah (talk) 18:39, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

I believe Rob could finish his review, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:14, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I don't see any problems with it, but I'd actually like another set of eyes on this because of how much back-and-forth we've had. It's nice to get someone "fresh" to take a quick peek at the hook. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 19:25, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

for ALT7b: I've fixed a typo (lied for lived) and added a citation immediately after Slovenia to support that part of the hook fact, both of which were trivial fixes. I've confirmed the hook information from sources in the article. I would suggest, although it's not required for the DYK, that you add a sentence about her books to the lead. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 01:46, 24 February 2017 (UTC)