Template:Did you know nominations/Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Sven Manguard Wha? 22:59, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms

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... that the 1843 Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms (pictured) is regarded as the first significant Chinese book on the West and was instrumental in the formulation of modern Japan's early foreign policy?

Reviewed: 63 Cavalry

Created by Philg88 (talk). Self nominated at 08:16, 17 April 2014 (UTC).

Very nice new article on an interesting scholarly subject. A couple of places need inline references, which I've marked in the article. Everything else checks out. -Zanhe (talk) 17:57, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

References Done ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 06:09, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the improvement. Another issue: the hook is now 202 characters long (or 212 including "(pictured)"), exceeding the maximum length. One solution is to the original Chinese title (Haiguo Tuzhi) to reduce the length. What do you think? -Zanhe (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Or change it:

Alt1 ... that the 1843 Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms (pictured) is regarded as the first significant Chinese book on the West and aided in the creation of modern Japan's early foreign policy?

(198 b) Philg88 ^♦talk 05:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

It just occurred to me that the Japanese portion of the hook is not directly supported by sources. It can be deduced from the article, but to be used in a DYK hook, it needs to be directly sourced. Sorry for not catching it earlier. -Zanhe (talk) 06:42, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Much as I hate to disagree with you: "Japan should embark on a "cautious, gradual and realistic opening of its borders to the Western world" and thereby avoid the mistake China had made in engaging in the First Opium War." in the last para is a directly sourced quote with the remainder of the sentence supported by the surrounding text. There is also a connection via Sakuma Shōzan but showing it involves too much synthesis as I'm unlikely to find a source. Cheers, Philg88 ^♦talk 07:45, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, it's a big leap from a quote by an individual reformer to the conclusion that the book aided in the creation Japan's early foreign policy. As much I enjoyed reading the article and would like to see it featured on the main page, I cannot agree that the current hook is adequately supported by sources. However, I did a bit of research and found this source that explicitly says that the book had an important impact in Japan (though it does not directly mention foreign policy). I think the hook could be revised along that line, which is well supported by RS. -Zanhe (talk) 19:58, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Fair point Zanhe, and an excellent source, thanks.

So: Alt2 ... ~~that the 1843 Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms (pictured) is regarded as the first significant Chinese book on the West and influenced a number of Japanese Meiji reformers?~~

Alt2 is fine, but I think it'll be more powerful to say that the book made a big impact in Japan (per Yoshida). -Zanhe (talk) 06:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Lets go with Alt3:

... that the 1843 Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms (pictured) is regarded as the first significant Chinese book on the West and had an important impact in Japan?

Philg88 ^♦talk 13:29, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

ALT3 is good to go (I changed the second "significant" to "important", to avoid repetition; "major" or "big" would also do). QPQ is verified, and image is public domain. Thank you very much for writing this fine article on the important subject. -Zanhe (talk) 19:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)