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Template:Did you know nominations/I.O.O.F. Centennial Building

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:47, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

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I.O.O.F. Centennial Building

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I.O.O.F. Centennial Building, Alpena, Michigan
I.O.O.F. Centennial Building, Alpena, Michigan

Created by Markhole (talk), Imzadi1979 (talk), 7&6=thirteen (talk), and Doug Coldwell (talk). Nominated by 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC) at 20:58, 4 June 2016 (UTC).

I have pulled the hook from the queue following complaints about factual accuracy on WT:DYK. Could somebody please suggest another hook? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:27, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

FWIW, I am copying the articulation of the issue made by Fram at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Prep_3:_miniature.3F below.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:07, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
This is not a "miniature version" of a flat iron building, and even less (as was originally proposed as hook) " a miniature version of the 22 story triangular shaped New York skyscraper Flatiron building". The Flatiron Building was completed in 1902, the building from the hook was completed in 1876, so it would be hard to be a miniature version of a building that didn't exist yet. "Flat iron" buildings were a long-established type of building in the US, and often were small (before the time of the skyscrapers). This is a perfectly standard flat iron building, not a miniature version. See e.g. the Carroll Building (Norwich, Connecticut) from 1887 for a comparable building, or Rufus Barrett Stone House (1903), Flatiron Building (Portland, Oregon) (1916), Pullman Flatiron Building (1905). The Flatiron Building is the exception, and could be called a gigantic version of a flatiron building. But the reverse, calling this a miniature version, is not correct: it is the standard version (I also couldn't find "miniature" in the sources, but I may have overlooked it).
I could change the hook instead of posting here, but
is a particularly dull hook. I propose removing it from prep and reopening the template discussion instead. Fram (talk) 07:13, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
  • I am in favor of ALT3 because ALT3a may distract from the point of the nomination which is to present a flatiron building.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:14, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
@Fram:@Ritchie333:@TonyTheTiger: Submitting ALT3b for consideration; along with ALT2, ALT3 and ALT3a. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:18, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm struggling to see the "flatiron building" association that the hook rests on - of the sources I've looked at, they don't seem to mention that term aside from one that says "a red brick-wall, three-story, flat iron-shaped building", which isn't quite the same thing. I like the idea of the hook, but it has to be something that's entirely in the article and verifiable by sources in it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:51, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
.... paging @EEng: to see if he can throw the odd bit of inspiration in. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Ritchie333, I've tried but I'm drawing a blank. The odd building with odd occupants etc. seems the right idea, but I can't make them work. Try me again sometime, though, and maybe I'll have my groove back. EEng 01:08, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
The Alpena News article, the NHRS application and designation all say "flat-ironed shaped." Blinders-hindered literalism strikes again. In any event, lots of sources for odd-shaped building. What else would you call it? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:00, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Submitting ALT4 for consideration
ALT4 … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is an odd building on an odd shaped lot that was occupied on the third story by the Odd Fellows that could only be entered through an odd way?
This is how I break it down -
This source says, The temple, located on the third floor, holds hints of the once sacred space. Gaining entry to the room is still guarded by a door on each side of an anteroom.

The National Register of Historic Places Registration Form says, This triangular-footprint Italianate building was built in two parts...

It also says, Downtown Alpena contains relatively few Italianate buildings.
It also says, It is a brick, three story, flat iron-shaped building that occupies a triangular lot.
It also talks of the anteroom; The third floor retains almost all of its c. 1903 architectural elements. A landing at the top of the stairs fronts a small anteroom.
@Fram:@Ritchie333:@TonyTheTiger: Will that work?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4a … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is an odd building for a Michigan town on an odd shaped lot that was occupied on a third story by the Odd Fellows, that could only be entered through an odd way? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:38, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4b … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is an odd building for a certain town on an odd shaped lot that was occupied on a third story by the Odd Fellows, that could only be entered through an odd way? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:55, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4c … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is an odd building for a certain US town on an odd shaped lot that was occupied on a third story by Odd Fellows that entered through an odd way? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:01, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4d … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is an odd building on a triangular shaped lot in a certain American town and was occupied on a third story by Odd Fellows that entered it through an odd chamber? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4e … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) on a triangular shaped lot is an odd building for a certain American town and was occupied on a third story by Odd Fellows that entered it through an odd room? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:37, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4f … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) on a triangular shaped lot is an odd building for a certain American town and was occupied by Odd Fellows who entered its third story through a special chamber? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:13, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT4g … that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) on a triangular shaped lot is an odd building for a certain American town and was occupied by Odd Fellows on its third story which entrance was via an odd room? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:43, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
@Fram:@Ritchie333:@TonyTheTiger: Since there seems to be an issue with the flatiron building, I was bold and struck out the alternate hooks related to this that I originally submitted. Perhaps one of these versions of ALT4 I tweaked would work? For my favorites I lean towards them in preference in reverse order. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:18, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
I don't think any hook that calls it an "odd" building in this way has a chance. When people click "odd", they get to Italianate architecture, which doesn't explain why it is an odd building at all. "Triangular shaped lot" should be "triangular lot". Using "a certain American town" is just being deliberately vague, adds no value and is annoying. Nothing in the building article or the city article indicates why it would be addressed in such an odd way. No idea what is "odd" about an antechamber either. When one writes clickbait, the biggest danger is that the reader is disappointed by what is revealed. This is a series of hooks which fail in that regard; they try to hard to be mysteriously interesting, but most of the links are either disappointingly mundane, or bewildering for having no obvious connection with the linked text. I'ld fail all of the proposed hooks. Fram (talk) 11:34, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
ALT5: ... that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) featured what was to become an iconic triangular plan and antedated New York's Daniel Burnham-designed Flat Iron Building by a quarter century? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:06, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment Added more sources which support ALT5. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:01, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

No, really, no. Alt5 is nonsense. The plan of the IOOF building is not "iconic" and had no influence on the Flat Iron Building. It wasn't the first flat iron building (never mind triangular building), just one of relatively many. Linking this building with a famous building just because they were made in the same style, in a way that suggests strongly that this building had any influence at all on the later one, is just wrong. Fram (talk) 07:21, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

  • ALT 8 - ... that the historic I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is a three story commercial building that has an exterior decoration of raised brickwork spelling out "Centennial 4 July 1876"?
  • ALT 9 - ... that the I.O.O.F. Centennial Building (pictured) is a 3 story building in the shape of a clothes iron that has exterior raised brickwork spelling out "Centennial 4 July 1876", the year it was constructed?."
@Fram:@Ritchie333:@TonyTheTiger: - Will one of these work?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:48, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment I hereby withdraw my suggested ALT5 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:50, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment New reviewer needed? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:41, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Full re-review needed. There have been significant additions and corrections to the article since the original review was completed on June 19. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:06, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
  • This article is new enough and long enough. Approving ALT8 which I have tweaked. The hook facts are cited and the decoration can be observed in the image, which is appropriately licensed for use. The article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:07, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
I am withdrawing my suggested ALT6, ALT7, and ALT9.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:06, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
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