Template:Did you know nominations/Hundreds (video game)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Hundreds (video game)

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... ~~that video game journalist Ian Bogost wrote that Hundreds (screenshot pictured) has cultural cachet "unprecedented" for the video game medium?~~

Reviewed: Bruce Mayrock

5x expanded and mainspaced by Czar (talk). Self nominated at 05:10, 15 June 2014 (UTC).

New enough (for 10 June) and long enough. QPQ done. Hook image and article images all free. No problems with disambig links or with access to external links. The text is objective and neutral; the last big paragraph in the Reception section balances out all the praise. The text is fully referenced. The references section would be easier to read in two columns - {{Reflist|2}} - but this is a matter of opinion and not essential for DYK. Citations #1 to #5 were checked for possible copyvio or close paraphrasing. None found. (Citations 6-23 not checked). Issues: (1) There are two problems with the hook. (a) The hook is just saying that the subject of the article is cool; this is promotional and not encyclopaedic. (b) "Unprecedented" is sourced in online citation #20, which says that the type of game is unprecedented (not the coolness or cultural cachet). So you could still use "unprecedented" in an acceptable ALT hook if it refers to the type of game. (2) ~~Re typos: "Hundreds is puzzle game"; "lack of addictive loops that hook players to return". When issues 1 and 2 are resolved,~~ this nom should be OK. --Storye book (talk) 09:24, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

@Storye book, I fixed the other things, but I'm having trouble understanding that read of "unprecedented".

For a video game, this is nearly unprecedented—and a more complex accomplishment than it seems.[1]

I think it's completely fair to refer to part you're calling "being cool" in summary as "cultural cachet" (which works for the hook as well as the WP article). To elaborate, the "this" isn't about "being cool" as in how the game makes you a really cool guy, but how the game serves as a design object or a status symbol of high culture ("'Hundreds' Is the Haute Couture of Video Games"). I went to add an ALT hook, but I'm not sure how you'd like it to be clearer—I think this is the shortest way of getting to the point. czar ♔ 12:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Re the meaning of "unprecedented" in citation #20. In the first 5 paragraphs of citation #20, the writer Ian Bogost is talking about coolness, status symbols, cultural cachet and so on. But "unprecedented" comes in the 6th paragraph, and it appears in a sentence which refers to Hundreds being a complex video game. The rest of the paragraph 6 deals with previous types of simpler games made by the designers of Hundreds, and the para is summed up in its last sentence: "While their previous, individual work is dorky and wacky and charming and fun, Hundreds is something else entirely." So the word "unprecedented" means "something else entirely" and both expressions are referring to the type of video game that Hundreds is - a more complex game than the previous ones made by the designers and described in the middle of para 6. Paragraph 7 follows the theme by explaining just how complex it is. Conclusion: citation #20 is saying that Hundreds is an unprecendentedly complex game in comparison with the simpler ones previously designed by Adam Saltsman and Greg Wohlwend. --Storye book (talk) 15:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Re the meaning of the hook. Yes "cool" and "cultural cachet" can be used interchangeably - I'm not arguing with that. What I am saying is that if we put a hook on the front page quoting someone saying that blah is cool (or another word meaning cool) then we are advertising or promoting. WP does not advertise. If you include that same material in a Critical Reception section in the article (which you have correctly done) then that is fine, because the section heading clarifies its nature. But if you use it as a hook on the WP front page without an Advertising or Critical Reception heading above it, then that is advertising, promotion, weasel words etc. That is why we need another hook. I hope that helps. --Storye book (talk) 15:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

It's generally OK to focus a hook on something a reviewer said; I don't see this hook as unduly promotional. However, I'm bothered by the leap from the wording used in the source ("coolness") to the "cultural cachet" wording in the hook (it's in the article, but it's not clearly connected to "unprecedented"), and I believe we can generate an interesting new hook that won't be deemed as promotional. That Bogost review is full of wonderful things to quote. My favorite would be to say that he likened the game to a "boutique hotel lobby [furnished with] Mies van der Rohe leather lounge chairs", but that quote isn't in the article. How about this:

ALT1: ... that video game journalist Ian Bogost described gameplay in the puzzle game Hundreds (screenshot pictured) as a "multi-touch ballet"? --Orlady (talk) 17:58, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Orlady. ALT1 is hooky enough, short enough, and checks out with online citation #20. All other issues resolved. Good to go with ALT1. --Storye book (talk) 18:27, 1 July 2014 (UTC)