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Template:Did you know nominations/Holy Trinity Church, Newcastle-under-Lyme

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 12:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Holy Trinity Church, Newcastle-under-Lyme

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Holy Trinity Church, Newcastle-under-Lyme
Holy Trinity Church, Newcastle-under-Lyme

Created by Cardofk (talk). Self-nominated at 08:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC).


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Thank you for an nice article about a rather lovely church. That is indeed an extraordinary frontage. Just a few points, which should be easily resolved:

  • 1. Rephrasing needed, to avoid plagiarism: "In the early nineteenth century Mass was said in a room in the Shakespeare Hotel, Brunswick Street"; "Egan designed the church himself"; "On 13 May 1834, the church was opened by". (OK, the last two are trivial, but let's stay on the safe side).
  • 2. It would be wise to remove "and protested against" from the hook, because the source does not specify that the protest involved objections to the named church. Yes, the locals would have got the point about the church, and the protest did not need to name the church to get that point across - but for the purposes of this article, we need the source to say that the protest named the church. I can search 1834 Newcastle newspapers for more info if you like,* but until we find what we need, we're going to have to drop that bit from the hook (well, the rest is still interesting, and without the protest bit we'll get a short-enough hook). ( * Update: I have searched for the consecration date of the church and any contemporaneous protestant meeting against Catholicism, but have not yet found it. If you can give me some precise dates, I'll have another look).
  • 3. Re your QPQ: no doubt you checked for plagiarism and whether the pic is free, but you forgot to mention it in your review. If you could please put that in, I can tick the QPQ.

NB. I have briefly copyedited the article, but that does not affect DYK. Storye book (talk) 09:51, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Cardofk:. Thank you for rephrasing as in point 1. above. Storye book (talk) 08:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Cheers, other than the date of the church opening I have no other information regarding the protests. Either way, it's better to have a shorter hook by leaving it out.Cardofk (talk) 08:10, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
ALT1: ... that Holy Trinity Church (pictured) in Newcastle-under-Lyme was praised as "the finest modern specimen of ornamental brickwork in the kingdom"?
@Cardofk: Please approve ALT1 (or suggest another ALT)? Storye book (talk) 09:41, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Yes, definitely approve. Cardofk (talk) 08:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't trust EH for the information in their listings; I always prefer to have a second citation for what they say, if possible. I read through quite a few of the big church meetings in 1834. There were plenty of them, and they were almost all about antidisestablishmentarianism (at last - an excuse to use that word). The C of E speeches were all bickering about tithes, and the dissenters were all jealous of the C of E being part of the Establishment cos dissenters didn't get tithes, and both made a lot of noise about it, and got entire speeches reported in the papers (groan). The RCs almost never got any press. My guess is that the anti-RC meeting was not in that year, or EH were just reporting hearsay. So I agree, it's best to forget about it until we get more information. But it's worth keeping it in the article, in case it prompts more research. Storye book (talk) 09:41, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you Storye book, I agree, both about getting the second citation and keeping it in the article, but not in the hook. Wow, incredible work, trawling through those papers. What did you use? I tried BritishNewspaperArchive.co.uk, but it doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of information that you described. Thanks again, Cardofk (talk) 07:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
I used BNA too, but I've been using it for years, and maybe I'm using different search terms? Best to continue this discussion on your talk page, if that's OK? Storye book (talk) 08:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Good to go, with ALT1 and picture. Thank you, Cardofk, for resolving all the issues. Storye book (talk) 08:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Higher-resolution photo added - the best one I could find with a creative commons license (good old geograph again). Don't mind which one you go for, choose whichever photo you think is best for a main page image. Cardofk (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
@Cardofk: Thank you for the second picture. I have cropped and edited that picture for perspective, and so that the details of the facade are a bit clearer. Please could you kindly remove whichever two pictures you don't want, so that the promoter can use the right one? Storye book (talk) 07:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
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