Template:Did you know nominations/Henrik Igityan National Centre for Aesthetics
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 00:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
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Henrik Igityan National Centre for Aesthetics
Work in collection
... that the world's first childrens' art museum has 150,000 artworks by children in its collection?Source: no. of artworks=https://armeniadiscovery.com/en/articles/national-center-of-aesthetics & 'world's first'=https://www.thecaucasustours.com/childrens-art-gallery/- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jenny Hurn
- Comment:
Lajmmoore (talk) 21:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC).
- @Lajmmoore:
Love this! New enough, long enough, Earwig comes up clean, no image, QPQ has been done, and hook is damn interesting. Unfortunately, visityerevan.am, farusa.org, hamazkayin.com, armeniadiscovery.com, thecaucasustours.com, and evnmediafest.com are not reliable sources. Once those are replaced or removed, I can go ahead and pass this. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is an image now, and I think there might be WP:FOP problems. Also, "first" is going to be very hard to verify, as we can't rule out there being an earlier, smaller museum in a distant country the authors of the sources never heard of. Bremps... 10:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, yes, there is an image! I'm also not convinced the licensing checks out. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 16:40, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- comment RE: image - the file name states the painting was done by Ruben Igityan, who was the son of Henrik Igityan. He died in a plane crash in 1975 with his mother. Henrik would therefore inherit the rights? I assumed that since Henrik is still involved with the NCA, and the image was donated as part of a partnership, that the licensing was OK. Lajmmoore (talk) 22:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, yes, there is an image! I'm also not convinced the licensing checks out. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 16:40, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is an image now, and I think there might be WP:FOP problems. Also, "first" is going to be very hard to verify, as we can't rule out there being an earlier, smaller museum in a distant country the authors of the sources never heard of. Bremps... 10:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
ALT1... that the Yerevan Children's Art Gallery shows "the unexpected beauty of children’s art"? Source: https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000063186
- Forgot to sign and ping people yesterday (blame my tired eyes), but I think the article is now improved @Theleekycauldron: & @Bremps:, thanks for your input! Lajmmoore (talk) 13:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lajmmoore: I still see some unreliable sources, and that the Centre itself is being used to support controversial claims. I don't think ALT1 communicates anything more interesting that the name already implies – sure, someone said it's a children's art gallery and that it's surprisingly good. One person saying that doesn't make it all that intriguing, I would think. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I think I quite liked the hook, because I don't think most people would automatically think children's art was beautiful?! (it did have a grammer mistake in that I removed now)- I'll look at the rest later on :) Lajmmoore (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- All right, fair enough. But the hook can't be phrased in wikivoice, so we'll need an ALT that provides some attribution. Let me know when the other changes have been made :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks @Theleekycauldron: - I've added a couple of new citations and trimmed the NCA ones now - I don't think they support anything contentious, just numbers of artworks. I've also toned down the "world's first"-ness. In terms of an ALT2, how about:
- All right, fair enough. But the hook can't be phrased in wikivoice, so we'll need an ALT that provides some attribution. Let me know when the other changes have been made :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I think I quite liked the hook, because I don't think most people would automatically think children's art was beautiful?! (it did have a grammer mistake in that I removed now)- I'll look at the rest later on :) Lajmmoore (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lajmmoore: I still see some unreliable sources, and that the Centre itself is being used to support controversial claims. I don't think ALT1 communicates anything more interesting that the name already implies – sure, someone said it's a children's art gallery and that it's surprisingly good. One person saying that doesn't make it all that intriguing, I would think. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2... that Zhanna Aghamiryan described how paintings at Yerevan Children's Art Gallery (pictured) showed future generations "the unexpected beauty of children’s art"? Source: https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000063186
- What do you think? Lajmmoore (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Does the above satisfy your concerns, and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lajmmoore: I've removed some of the references, so the article looks fine now – i didn't catch earlier that the quote is from the director of the museum, and now I feel uncomfortable approving it. if it were from an independent source, i might've gone ahead, but i'm a bit concerned about puffery now. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 09:30, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Does the above satisfy your concerns, and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- What do you think? Lajmmoore (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2... that Zhanna Aghamiryan described how paintings at Yerevan Children's Art Gallery (pictured) showed future generations "the unexpected beauty of children’s art"? Source: https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000063186
A couple of further options @Theleekycauldron::
- ALT3... that Zhanna Aghamiryan described how paintings at Yerevan Children's Art Gallery (pictured) were "psychological documents" as well as art? Source: https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000063186
- ALT4 ... that the founding of Yerevan Children's Art Gallery led to the development of a national aesthetics centre? Garoian, Charles R. (1994). "Teaching Art as a Matter of Cultural Survival: Aesthetic Education in the Republic of Armenia". Journal of Aesthetic Education. 28 (2): 83–94. doi:10.2307/3333273.
Either of these work better? Lajmmoore (talk) 09:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lajmmoore: how about this instead? ALT5: ... that one Soviet children's art museum kept no records of its operation for over 20 years? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hmmm, with my "i'm a museum curator" hat on, it's not a DYK i like as it sounds a bit negligent, but I do totally see why that theme might be suggested. Maybe we can tweak it to:
- ALT6 ... that Yerevan Children's Art Museum kept no records from the 1970s to 1990s as self-protection? Lajmmoore (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Is the above hook approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 04:54, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
ALT6 is short enough, interesting, and sourced AGF. I offer the below as an alternative for the promoter, but either will work:- ALT6a: ... why the Yerevan Children's Art Museum deliberately kept no records from the 1970s to the 1990s?--Launchballer 13:54, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
