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Template:Did you know nominations/Heinz Winbeck

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:53, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Heinz Winbeck

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  • Reviewed: Louise Nevelton
  • Comment: The article was started by Henryk2011, a new editor. I helped with first steps in WP, formatting, referencing and expanding.

Created/expanded by Henryk2011 (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 10:05, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Hook: Rather long and the focus is not on the subject. Anything else? I like the exploding quote.
Article: New enough, long enough. Students are uncited. Reference format looks okay, seems neutral. This reference seems dead or something. AGF on German sources.
Summary: Please fix the referencing and provide an ALT. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks for looking. The hook is long, agreed, trying to say about a not yet known composer that 1) an important conductor was interested in his music, 2) he wrote 5 symphonies, 3) he is a reflecting composer, 4) he departed from Bruckner's (unfinished monumental, as many know) 9th symphony, 5) the performance was at the Stift St. Florian were Bruckner worked and is buried (as many know). When I wrote it I hoped to include a pic of St. Florian but found them not good enough, so we might drop that part. I will place one more pic with the Stift, but it doesn't actually belong in his article. - He is mentioned as teacher of the students in the student's articles. I don't think we need four bios (more to come) referenced also in his article, right? - I don't find the questioned link in the article, this works for me and is in English. - The saying about the "exploding" is complicated in German, not well translated, should be "blown up" rather than "explode", so I rather not suggested it, but could work on it if something like my shortened version was acceptable. But I think I would rather like to present him as a substantial composer who's music actually gets performed:
ALT1:... that Dennis Russell Davies conducted the premiere of the Fifth Symphony "Now and in the hour of death" by Heinz Winbeck, which reflects Bruckner's Ninth Symphony? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:41, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I like the ALT. The students would be best cited; if they are cited in the individual articles it should be no problem to copy those citations. My browser seems to be adding "index" to everything on that site, causing an error, but it does exist. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:42, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • In the German Wikipedia 11 students are mentioned, 7 with an article. Are we planning to ref so many, eventually? At the moment, I simply don't have the time. Refs are probably in different format. - Can you delete the addition "index" in the url for the publisher site? Or google him with Bärenreiter? Yo will see bio, discography, literature and "about". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I have no problem AGF-ing it; the index is being added automatically, and I'm being redirected. I'll see if I can deal with the students issue myself. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Only Rudy Spring is cited, but I can't open the site. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I found an additional ref for Spring, hope you can open that. For the others: perhaps talk to the original author, who created one of them also, Hensel? Or look at comparable lists, students and professors of universities, all without ref when there is an article? Or take the students just as "he has notable students"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm having some serious connection problems today, so I can't check the reference. Note that a lot of professor articles are not up to par, and it is preferable to have each member of a list cited (unless everything is from one or two sources). Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Sorry for your connection. It says (in German) "Der 1962 in Lindau geborene Rudi Spring ist heute einer der individuellsten und markantesten Komponisten der Münchner Szene. Spring ist auch ein ausgezeichneter Pianist. Zu seinen Lehrern zählen Karl-Hermann Mrongovius und die Komponisten Kuppelmayer, Killmayer und Winbeck." (... Among his teachers are ... the composers K, K and Winbeck.) We are talking no more than that someone is someone else's student, right? Look for example at this list, no refs, even for the red links. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:09, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • That is also a stub. Lists should generally not have red links. I don't feel comfortable passing the students section without references. Generally, lists we pass are highly referenced, like the deaths at the Berlin Wall list you participated in a few weeks ago. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm afraid that is the exception rather than the rule. Look at this, a few refs, the others taken by their articles, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Would you be opposed to removing the list entirely? That would ensure that there is no deadlock. The lists I've seen passed at DYK are generally well-referenced. The examples you've given thusfar were not DYKs. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Done, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:58, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Good to go! AGF on German sources. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:09, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
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