Template:Did you know nominations/Harry Kupfer
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:57, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
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Harry Kupfer
[edit]- ... that Harry Kupfer, for decades a stage director at the Komische Oper Berlin, staged Der fliegende Holländer at the Bayreuth Festival in 1978? Source: several
- Reviewed:
to comeEuropean pilchard
- Reviewed:
5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 22:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC).
- What's interesting about this? Do stage directors at the KOB not normally stage at Bayreuth? It sounds like something routine. Daniel Case (talk) 03:11, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
- Today, yes. Then, it was The exception, someone from East Berlin in Bayreuth. I had the pleasure to see it because a friend who received the ticket after years of waiting didn't want to see that production, because of the stage director. Can't put all that in 200 chars, sorry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:39, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: I'm afraid that I share Daniel's concern about the hook interest. The hook subject (a stage director staging something) is not really of interest to a broad audience, and I'm not sure this even appeals to classical music fans. A new hook needs to be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:26, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Wait until Monday at least, will be away. Bayreuth Festival is like the Olympic Games in opera, - no idea how to communicate that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:55, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Any updates? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:57, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Any answer to the Olympic Games of opera? I'd argue that whoever doesn't know that will not care about him, and the others don't need explanation. I looked at the achievements of a long life, and believe this is the most outstanding which made him known in the Western world. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Right now, as it stands, Daniel is not happy with the current hook, and it might be for the best that a new hook be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:36, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Daniel, could you please look again? (Because I'd have a hard time suggesting something I'd think is second-rate.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- OK, giving this a brief look before a too-late bedtime ... you mentioned something I hadn't known, that the KOB was in the East. That makes the hook interesting. Can we get it in there? Can we say he was the first or only East German opera director to direct at Bayreuth? Would that work and be supported by sources? Daniel Case (talk) 06:55, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- I'll see, but it may take a few days, RL. We just mentioned Barrie Kosky again, the first Jewish director, well supported, but news from the 1970s are harder to find. I saw the production because my friend wo had waited for years for tickets would not see his staging, nor Chéreau's who had opened the door for things like that to happen ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- Daniel, could you please look again? (Because I'd have a hard time suggesting something I'd think is second-rate.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Right now, as it stands, Daniel is not happy with the current hook, and it might be for the best that a new hook be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:36, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Any answer to the Olympic Games of opera? I'd argue that whoever doesn't know that will not care about him, and the others don't need explanation. I looked at the achievements of a long life, and believe this is the most outstanding which made him known in the Western world. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Daniel, I looked and found this review which says nothing about any "first" but goes in great detail to his way of interpreting Wagner's work in a psychological approach as Senta's visions and obsessions, which was not wanted by the Wagner traditionalists (and would not have pleased the composer). Trying, but not familiar with the terms, - German Psycho-Drama seems to be something completely different from psychodrama, - is there an English term for what is meant here?
ALT1: ... that when Harry Kupfer, for decades a stage director at the Komische Oper Berlin, was invited to stage Der fliegende Holländer at the Bayreuth Festival in 1978, he presented the work from Senta's psychological situation? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- For ALT1, I'm not so sure. It seems to be too overwhelming with information. Like the average reader might ask: "who is Stena?" "what do you mean by Senta's psychological situation?", and others to that effect. This hook might possibly work provided the hook is rewritten to state who Senta is, and what the psychological sitatuion was. Also, from what I can tell, the subject of this hook would be about presenting The Flying Dutchman, and I don't really see how the part about the Komische Oper Berlin fits with the rest of the hook, so that might have to go. Perhaps something like "... that when Harry Kupfer was invited to stage Der fliegende Holländer at the Bayreuth Festival in 1978, he presented the work from Senta's psychological situation?" Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:09, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
- I didn't want to say "the heroine Senta" because she is nor heroic in his staging. The KOB is much more important to mention than the girl.
- ALT2: ... that when Harry Kupfer, for decades a stage director at the Komische Oper Berlin, was invited to to direct Der fliegende Holländer at the Bayreuth Festival in 1978, he presented it as a psychological drama? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
- Like I mentioned, I'm not sure if the Berlin Opera is really important in the context of the hook since the point is that he wanted to present the opera as a psychological drama. The hook could simply say something like "that when Harry Kupfer was invited to direct...". But I digress and I will leave the final decision to Daniel Case. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:37, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5 and Gerda Arendt: As much as I understand how Gerda wanted to preserve that in the hook, it makes it too long at 206 characters with spaces. But the rest of it checks out, at least to the extent I can read and understand the Die Zeit article. Daniel Case (talk) 15:44, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
- We can skip polite "invited".
- ALT3: ... that Harry Kupfer, stage director at the Komische Oper Berlin for decades, presented Wagner's Der fliegende Holländer at the 1978 Bayreuth Festival as a psychological drama? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:56, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
Alright, it is ready now. Daniel Case (talk) 21:34, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5 and Gerda Arendt: As much as I understand how Gerda wanted to preserve that in the hook, it makes it too long at 206 characters with spaces. But the rest of it checks out, at least to the extent I can read and understand the Die Zeit article. Daniel Case (talk) 15:44, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
- Like I mentioned, I'm not sure if the Berlin Opera is really important in the context of the hook since the point is that he wanted to present the opera as a psychological drama. The hook could simply say something like "that when Harry Kupfer was invited to direct...". But I digress and I will leave the final decision to Daniel Case. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:37, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
