Template:Did you know nominations/Hans Drewanz

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 06:40, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Hans Drewanz

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~~... that Hans Drewanz shaped opera and concerts of Darmstadt for more than three decades?~~ Source: several

Reviewed: ~~to come~~
Comment: Sorry, I have no time right now to be specific.

Created by LouisAlain (talk), Grimes2 (talk), and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 19:23, 22 August 2021 (UTC).

ALT0a: ... ~~that Hans Drewanz shaped opera and concerts at the Staatstheater Darmstadt for more than three decades?~~ Grimes2 (talk) 19:35, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
ALT1: ... ~~that Hans Drewanz was personal assistant to Georg Solti at the Oper Frankfurt from 1953 to 1959?~~ Grimes2 (talk) 19:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
As far as I know, the concerts were not at the theatre, so only "opera" in ALT0a, and just a name-dropping vs. 3 decades of musical life seems a bit too little (ALT1). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Drewanz was Generalmusikdirektor of the Staatsorchester Darmstadt, part of the Staatstheater Darmstadt. BTW: I was at concerts in the building. Grimes2 (talk) 20:57, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

No question about that, but I'm not sure about the concerts, - also part of the job, and in some towns that's separate. (Perhaps not in Darmstadt, but I don't know. I don't know if these concerts were played at the Staatstheater building, which the ALT01 version suggests, saying "at".)

I came to say that I added some pieces:

ALT1a: ... that when conductor Hans Drewanz, a personal assistant to Georg Solti at the Oper Frankfurt, became Generalmusikdirektor in Darmstadt, he was the youngest GMD in Germany?

ALT0b: ... that Hans Drewanz, GMD in Darmstadt for more than three decades, covered music history in concerts such as Monteverdi's Vespro della Beata Vergine and operas such as Britten's Death in Venice?

The ref says 400 years of history but those 2 are more like 300. Generalmusikdirektor is much higher responsibility that music director to which it links, so I don't know how to say so without spelling it out. (it had its own article, but that was merged, and not merged well, sounding as if 'chief conductor' was the same.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

I like ALT1a. International relevance (Solti) and life's work (Darmstadt). Grimes2 (talk) 15:22, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

ALT1b: ... ~~that conductor Hans Drewanz, a personal assistant to Georg Solti at the Oper Frankfurt, became Germany's youngest Generalmusikdirektor in Darmstadt?~~
ALT1c: ... ~~that conductor Hans Drewanz, a personal assistant to Georg Solti at the Oper Frankfurt, became then Germany's youngest Generalmusikdirektor in Darmstadt?~~ Grimes2 (talk) 18:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the offers. I believe the "then" is a bit of a problem (which I tried to solve in my version) because it could just mean "following", but should mean "the youngest at that time", - there may have been someone younger later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
ALT1d: ... that conductor Hans Drewanz, a personal assistant to Georg Solti at the Oper Frankfurt, became Germany's youngest Generalmusikdirektor in Darmstadt at the time? Grimes2 (talk) 18:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, there has been a younger GMD later. Grimes2 (talk) 18:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:, please remember to do a QPQ soon. The birthdate for Drewanz needs to be cited somewhere in the article. I will do a full review when the QPQ is done. Cheers! Flibirigit (talk) 01:55, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Aaron Pike (athlete). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:30, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Will do the review later today. Flibirigit (talk) 11:25, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Gerda, I have done some copyediting to the article. I hope it is a bit easier to read in English, but still true to the sources based on my knowledge of German. I have translated "Repetitor" in German (Répétiteur in French) into music coach, since I feel that "repeater" is not the intended meaning in English. I think that "music instructor" may also be a good translation. Please let me know what you think. Since I have done a fair bit of work on the article, it may best to let another person do the review. I am willing to help you with hooks of course. Flibirigit (talk) 23:00, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the copy-editing, Flibirigit, much appreciated. I don't know if music coach is the correct name for a pianist professionally preparing soloists and choirs for operas and concerts. Sorry about overlooking that term, - so far I think Répétiteur is closest. If there's a proper English word instead, please add it to that article, and make a redirect, - how should we foreigners learn if no translation is given. I hesitate to use a French phrase in an article about a German. Pipe to something, perhaps?

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

A wikilink to Répétiteur seems like the best choice. I will watch for a full DYK review and help where needed. Flibirigit (talk) 15:06, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Not sure why "Generalmusikdirektor" is untranslated, shouldn't the English term be used here? The piped link is already to the English article so it shouldn't be difficult. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:40, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Because the German term has a specific meaning which can not be translated without loosing in translation. It's responsibility for musical life in a city, not just music direction of a production. We had an article which was merged, and not merged well. - If there is a fitting English term that I don't know, help me to it. "Music director" is not it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

MOS does suggest that we use English titles and terms whenever possible, and there already is an equivalent English term here. Maybe it's not perfect, but translations rarely ever are. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:51, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Tell me an equivalent that deserves the name. A foreign term can raise curiosity, no? An equivalent that is no equivalent is misleading. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:55, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't see an issue with using "Generalmusikdirektor" here. I read through the Music director article and I think the German term is concise, makes it clear that it's a particular title, and still understandable for an English-language audience who doesn't speak German (as opposed to, like, "음악 감독" or "Генеральмузикдиректор". Attempts to come up with a multi-word English equivalent would likely make the hook clunkier and less appealing. DanCherek (talk) 20:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Review:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Everything checks out and the article looks good, well done to all involved. I like ALT1d best because I think it's phrased a little more concisely than ALT1a; ALT0b is a tad long even without Generalmusikdirektor spelled out, which I prefer it to simply "GMD". DanCherek (talk) 01:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

ALT1d to T:DYK/P3