Template:Did you know nominations/Hamdan Qarmat

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:08, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Hamdan Qarmat

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• ... that the Qarmatian movement began when Hamdan Qarmat renounced the claims of Abdallah, the future founder of the Fatimid Caliphate, to be the Islamic Messiah? Sources:
  Daftary 1990, pp. 125–126: "Upon returning from his fact-finding mission, Abdan reported that instead of acknowledging the Mahdıship of the hidden Muhammad b. Ismaıl, on whose behalf the dawa had been so far conducted, the new leader now claimed the imamate for himself and his ancestors...renounced their allegiance to the central leadership"
  Madelung 1996, p. 24: Hamdan Qarmat and 'Abdan eventually quarrelled with their lord at Salamiyya and broke off the propaganda conducted in his name.... had seceded after Umayd Allah had gained supremacy and proclaimed himself the expected Mahdi."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/NMS Mărăști

Created by Cplakidas (talk). Self-nominated at 15:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
• Interesting: - The hook is only interesting to people who know already what a "Mahdi" or the "Fatimid Caliphate" are but is not really catchy enough to attract other readers. How about something simpler like ALT1: ... that Hamdan Qarmat founded the Qarmatian movement? or ALT2: ... that Hamdan Qarmat began the Qarmatian movement in opposition to Abdallah's claim to be Mahdi?

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Hook still needs work (see above), other than that looks good. Some of the later parts of the article would probably fit beter in Qarmatian. Regards SoWhy 10:48, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, I rather disagree that recognizability is a criterion; I don't know most of the terms or names I read in DYK, that's precisely what it is for: to encourage people to click on them and find out more. Anyhow, the bit about who Abdallah was is necessary, as the name is ubiquitous in Islamic history; being the founder of the Fatimid Caliphate is a way to distinguish him, and, for those who know a bit about the context, place Qarmat as well in context. For understandability/catchy-ness, one could replace "Mahdi" with "Islamic Messiah", however. Constantine ✍ 11:28, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: It's clear that DYK is to serve as a way to expose editors to new information, so of course the hook should contain such information as well. However, with that in mind, we also want people to click on those links and they are more likely to do so if the hook is catchy which is not the case if it mainly contains words only people familiar with the topic know. That said, I think your suggestion of replacing "Mahdi" with "Islamic Messiah" is sufficient to attract said interest while keeping ALT0 otherwise as proposed. Ready (sorry for the delay, I forgot to watchlist the page) Regards SoWhy 16:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I thought everybody knew about the Mahdi. Charlton Heston played Gordon in the 1966 epic film Khartoum. Just kidding. I actually had a minor in British/British Imperial History. So my view might be skewed by personal experience. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:23, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of making the change of "Mahdi" to "Islamic Messiah" in ALT0, per SoWhy's review, so the old wording isn't promoted by mistake; I've also struck all the other hooks for the same reason. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2019 (UTC)