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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Alex ShihTalk 18:27, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

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Goodwyns

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Wenlock Edge, a 14-storey tower block on the Goodwyns estate in Dorking, Surrey

Created by Hassocks5489 (talk). Self nominated at 19:59, 15 July 2013 (UTC).

  • Date, length OK. Citations as excellent as ever from this editor. But I am not sure that the hook accurately reflects the source or its authorship (available online). Would this be acceptable (more accurate, and even, possibly, more "interesting")?
ALT1 ... that Nairn and Pevsner commented that some of the 1960s tower blocks (one pictured) on Dorking's Goodwyns estate were "more elegant than average"?
--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that ALT suggestion is fair; thanks Peter! Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 17:17, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • for ALT1 - hook OK and confirmed by online source. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 18:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed for ALT1; since Peter I. Vardy proposed that hook, and it has new facts in it, someone else (per WP:DYKSG#H2) needs to review it. (Have struck original hook due to concerns noted above.) BlueMoonset (talk) 16:38, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
  • ALT1 verified and ready to go. DoctorKubla (talk) 07:39, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I have pulled this one from the queue as the hook is weak - that some buildings on a housing state were described as better than average is barely worthy of interest. Suggested alt:
  • ALT2: ... that Goodwyns council estate in Dorking has been described by critics as an "unusually good" example of its type? Gatoclass (talk) 06:01, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I guess you missed the irony (a sort of typical comment from Pevsner). Now ALT2 really IS dull! --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:03, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Irony? That sounds like OR to me :) And yes, both hooks are pretty dull, but "unusually good" trumps "more elegant than average" in my book ;) Gatoclass (talk) 08:15, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Not OR. I think that most people would consider the use of the word "elegant" in respect of 1960s tower blocks is, well, ......ironic. And "more elegant than average" is a direct quote from the source. IMO you cannot use "unusually good" as a quote because it is not in the source – that could be construed as OR (or at the least, as an interpretation of the material). --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 09:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Huh? "Unusually good" is right there as a quote in the article itself, cited to this page in the supplied source. Gatoclass (talk) 12:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I guess the picture of the stark grey tower block helps to give that element of surprise in the hook; if the pic isn't used the hook needs to "do more work" to provide interest. What about this, or something along these lines:
  • ALT3 ... that critics have described the Goodwyns council estate in Dorking as an "unusually good" example with "more elegant than average" tower blocks (one pictured)? Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 12:43, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I prefer weakish hooks to be short but in the spirit of compromise I guess I could accept that. Gatoclass (talk) 12:52, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
On second thoughts, I still don't like that "more elegant than average" phrase, but I am content to leave the choice of either ALT2 or ALT3 to the promoter. Apart from that, all this nom really needs now is for someone to verify the ALT2 and ALT3 hooks. Gatoclass (talk) 06:06, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I also was bothered by this hook. In ALT3, I don't like the word "critics", as this could refer to any number of types of critics (e.g., disgruntled residents) and I'm bothered by "example" (example of what?). I think that indicating the nature of the critics' expertise would make this more interesting. I don't think, however, that it's necessary to say that it's in Dorking. How about this variant:
  • ALT4 ... that architectural historians have described Goodwyns as "unusually good" for a council estate, with "more elegant than average" tower blocks (one pictured)? --Orlady (talk) 16:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Yep, that looks good to me. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Someone is still needed to verify ALT2 and/or ALT4 - I can't do it since the hooks were partly or wholly authored by myself. Gatoclass (talk) 16:24, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
  • ALT4 appears to be more preferable because it asserts notability through the indication of architectural historian. It certifies the importance and thus making it a stronger hook. Alex ShihTalk 18:27, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
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