Template:Did you know nominations/Germany-Poland border

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:56, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Germany–Poland border

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... that the Germany–Poland border after WWII mostly follows the Oder–Neisse line, divding several towns?

Reviewed: Marquis of Extended Grace

Created by Piotrus (talk). Self nominated at 04:17, 19 May 2014 (UTC).

~~Note: I have listed the article at WP:RMT to be moved to Germany–Poland border. It's an uncontroversial move so I hope it will be taken care of quickly. 97198 (talk) 10:26, 19 May 2014 (UTC)~~ Article has been moved and I've adjusted the DYK nomination accordingly. 97198 (talk) 14:21, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The hook is not supported by the provided source. While the division of several bordertowns is beyond question, the claim that the border follows "mostly" the Oder Neisse line is unsourced and I highly doubt you would find a source for that claim. Actually, the Oder-Neisse line, though the border is not completely congruent with the course of the river, is a synonym for the modern border (e.g. "The Polish—German border that was devised by the Allied powers at the end of World War II is known as the Oder—Neisse Line.", "ODER-NEISSE LINE, western border of Poland on the Rivers Oder (Odra)* and Neisse (Nysa) established after World War ...", "The Oder-Neisse Line was the name given to the Polish-German border by the Allied Powers at the end of World War II.").

This leads to the main problem: the article, until recently a simple redirect, is a WP:content fork of the existing Oder Neisse line, which covers the topic much more detailed. I'm afraid the article is rather an WP:Afd candidate.

There are also some minor problems:

The article constantly mixes up east and west ("Over several centuries, it has moved westwards, stabilized around in the 14th century" - I'm pretty sure the border moved eastwards; "...and resulted in significant eastwards transfers of German population from the "Recovered Territories"" – eastwards? not really )
"The border was partially shaped by the Treaty of Versailles, partially by plebiscites .. and partially by the outcome of regional border conflicts" - The interwar border was shaped by the Treaty of Versailles, the plebiscites were determined by that treaty and the settlement of the border was based on the Silesian plebiscite, not so much on the outcome of the Silesian Uprisings. HerkusMonte (talk) 15:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

- @HerkusMonte: Regarding mostly, I've added the refs. It is clear that the border follows the ON line, but not fully, as even one of the sources you cited makes it clear. At some points both rivers deviate from the line, particularly in the north, where the border eventually stops following the river. I have also added a map to clarify this.
- Regarding POV fork, I believe that the border is a separate topic from the line. For starters, the history of Polish-German border is not the same as the line; for example Polish-German interwar border had nothing to do with this line. QED, I think, but if you want to take it to AfD, go ahead.
- I think you are right about the Silesian Uprisings, I attempted to rewrite this in the article's body. Let me know if this take on the Uprisings is sufficient. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:23, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Could you please quote the source which supports your claim. All I see are explanations of the term "Oder-Neisse line" as a synonym for the German-Polish border. A History of the Germany-Poland border seems to be missing, but the current article hardly mentions this (probably difficile) topic. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:59, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Which claim is being called into question? I assume you are talking about something in the hook? I am afraid that the years of edit warring on the ON article is spilling into this simple and I'd have hoped uncontroversial topic (I had another editor badger me about the fact that "there was no Germany in 10th century"... sigh). I'd therefore request a review of this hook and references used by a neutral editor, i.e. one not involved in years of editing of this and related topics. Ping some DYK-reviewers who I believe are neutral on the Polish-German topics: User:Hawkeye7, User:BlueMoonset, User:Northamerica1000.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:48, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Unlinking WWII. Edwardx (talk) 13:41, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I am not competent to judge the political history aspect or the naming aspect as discussed above. Therefore the following review does not reflect that discussion. New enough and long enough. Hook checks out to online citations #15 and #16 in my opinion, although I am aware of the above discussion. QPQ OK. The DYK auto check for disambig and ext links does not work as this is a redirect page, so I did a brief/partial manual check. No disambigs found. I checked citations #2 to #14 manually and they are all available and appear reliable (i.e. mostly peer-reviewed books and not blogs etc). Issue: Citation #1 is just a search-box page. I recommend that this page is especially well-protected from vandalism, edit wars etc. during its front-page exposure. If the issue of citation #1 can be resolved, this nom will be good to go.--Storye book (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

@Storye book: Ref 1 fixed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Piotrus, for fixing the ref. Citation #1 link now goes to a page in Polish with a link for downloading a pdf file which contains the border length information, so I have adjusted the citation to say that you have to download the file. Good to go (at last!) --Storye book (talk) 07:19, 9 June 2014 (UTC)