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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 19:30, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

François Glorieux

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Created by Jmanlucas (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/François Glorieux; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Perhaps:
ALT2 would need a footnote to meet DYK requirements. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for the suggestions, but you will know me for long enough to know that (ALT2) mere quantity is something I hate (we had this singer about whom we only said that she performed Carmen 300 times, and I am still ashamed), and (ALT1) devoting 3/4 of the hook to already known Michael Jackson seems undue weight to me (and he doesn't need more attention), and means omitting that the wonderful thing about this musician was his versatility, brilliant enough a pianist to tour with one of the notable conductors at the time, and conducting both symphony as band, and again notable groups playing, and I left out teaching, all these international school concerts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:06, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Maybe we can just let the reviewer decide what hook they want? If they prefer ALT0 I won't object, I'm just giving alternative options. We can agree to disagree on what makes a good hook, it's the reviewer's job to decide what would be the best option. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:40, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I don't think there are objective things to decide what makes a good hook, it's always good in a certain respect. Why would the personal preference of some promoter carry more weight than that of the article writer, I wonder. Quite objectively, ALT1 says about the subject only that he was a composer and a conductor (leaving out pianist, academic teacher, leaving out what kind of music) and all the rest is about someone famous. It's name-dropping, if you ask me. As objectively, we can see that ALT2 gives impressive numbers, without a word about what kind of music was performed when. I have a personal opinion about that kind of statement that I tried to express. It is a personal goal of mine to say something about a subject that can't be said about anybody else, and that makes a good hook for me, - not the number of clicks that can be expected. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
ps: I believe that the arranging for Jackson is even more interesting when the arranger was before described as someone unlikely to be asked such as thing, than with a general description making it sound as if it was just like his normal job. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - See below
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Hello @Gerda Arendt: I will be taking over this review 🙂 Overall, I like it, but there are a few minor concerns I have before passing. First, could you replace the word "countless" for a more neutral sounding word in the second-to-last paragraph of the 'Life and Career' section? Maybe something like 'he would also give school concerts...'? The other concern I have is not about if the hook is interesting or cited (which I'm just AGF on since you didn't provide a link) but the length of it. Glorieux seems to have lived a very interesting life, but your ALT0 hook kind of reads like a summary of his achievements, and not as much as a 'fun fact' (fun fact doesn't sound right, so I hope you know the term I am going for here). Could you maybe pick one of those things to focus on instead of listing all of them? Viewers will still read these achievements in the lede after they get enticed by a catchy hook. I'm not for or against mentioning Michael Jackson, but for someone with very little knowledge on the subject (like myself before reading the article) Jackson was the only thing I recognized which made the hook interesting. I look forward to hearing from you, cheers! Johnson524 18:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for stepping in! English is not my first language, - please feel free to insert whatever term is more neutral to say that you can't count the number of his school concerts. - I think I answered the hook concerns above: for me, it makes the Jackson thingy more interesting in contrast, not what you'd expect from a classical person. But for a compromise, I drop Cluytens, although I love his style:
ALT0a: ... that François Glorieux was a Belgian pianist and improvisor, conductor of the BBC Radio Orchestra and Stan Kenton's band, and arranger for Michael Jackson?
What strikes me about the subject is his versatility, and I suggest to let it show. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
for ALT0a. Thank you for the new hook @Gerda Arendt: I think that sounds great! By the way, I went in and did the neutral-wording suggestion myself since you asked, I hope that's alright with you. Otherwise, I think that's everything, thank you again for your work on this article 🙂 Johnson524 20:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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