Template:Did you know nominations/Eskimo (film)

The following is an archived discussion of Eskimo (film)'s DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 20:25, 8 April 2013 (UTC).

Eskimo (film)

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... that the 1933 film Eskimo (poster pictured) was the first movie filmed in a Native American language?
ALT... that the 1933 film Eskimo (poster pictured) was the first movie with sound in a Native American language?

5x expanded by Tim1965 (talk). Nominated by PumpkinSky (talk) at 21:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC).

The size is fine and the image is public domain. The sourcing seems reasonable but I'm not able to check the off-line sources easily. I have done some fact-checking though. Within Our Gates: Ethnicity in American Feature Films, 1911-1960 has a substantial entry on the topic. It says that the movie is based upon Storfanger rather than Der Eskimo. I see that the latter title appears on the poster so maybe that's a translation issue.

More importantly, the hook needs to deal with counter-claims. Berkeley Bohemia: Artist and Visionaries of the Early 20th Century claims that "In 1928, she produced The Mountain Chant, the first Native American motion picture that was spoken in an Indian language." We can't pass this until this issue is settled.

Warden (talk) 16:45, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll let the writer know. PumpkinSky talk 23:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Many sources say The Mountain Chant was a silent film. The Wikipedia article on Laura Adams Armer says it was a silent picture. This makes sense, as The Jazz Singer only came out in September 1927. The article on sound film notes that "No studio beside Warner Bros. released even a part-talking feature until the low-budget-oriented Film Booking Offices of America (FBO) premiered The Perfect Crime on June 17, 1928, eight months after The Jazz Singer." (I've omitted the citation.) Women artists of the American West (edited by Susan R. Ressler), p. 214, says that The Mountain Chant was silent. As the source says: "During an early showing of the silent film in California, she brought a Native narrator to provide live Navajo dialogue. Today, The Mountain Chant is considered to be the first 'all Indian' motion picture 'in an aboriginal language'." An article in Rendezvous: Idaho State University Journal of Arts and Letters (1991), p. 124, says "Produced as a 'silent' film, The Mountain Chant is thought to be the first film to have been accompanied by narration in a native American language." See also: Peter E. Palmquist, Camera Fiends and Kodak Girls II, 1995, p. 95; May Castleberry and John Chávez, Perpetual Mirage: Photographic Narratives of the Desert West, p. 121. It makes sense that, as Asher was not backed by a major studio and the technology for on-location sound recording had not yet been developed, her film was silent. On-site narration does not make the film a talkie. (Furthermore, The Mountain Chant is a documentary, not a fiction film.) - Tim1965 (talk) 02:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

That makes sense. I suggest that we make the hook's claim clearer and will post an alt hook above. Please can you also comment on the query about Storfanger vs Der Eskimo.

Agree ALT1 has better wording.PumpkinSky talk 12:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

"Storfanger" is transliterated "great catch" and "die flucht ins weisse land" is transliterated "race in the white country", so I do not think it is a translation error. Storfanger is mentioned by a single source, Within Our Gates: Ethnicity in American Feature Films, 1911-1960. However, the majority of sources do not mention Storfanger: Library of Congress, Catalog of Copyright Entries. Part 1. C. Group 3. Dramatic Composition and Motion Pictures, Vol. 7, for the Years 1934, p. 24; John Reid, Award-Winning Films of The 1930s, 2004, p. 69-70; Henry Clark, Academy Award Diary, 1928-1955: A Motion Picture History, 1959, p. 45; Alan G. Fetrow, Sound Films, 1927-1939: A United States Filmography, 1992, p. 176; Stanley Hochman, From Quasimodo to Scarlett O'Hara: A National Board of Review Anthology, 1920-1940, 1982 p. 182; and Canadian Film Project, Canada and Canadians in Feature Films: A Filmography, 1928-1990, 1996, p. 8. Note that one source says "a series of books by Peter Freuchen" (emphasis added; see Angela Aleiss, Making The White Man's Indian: Native Americans and Hollywood Movies, 2005, p. 42), but again that is a single source. So, it is possible that it is indeed a series of books but that two (Der Eskimo and Die Flucht Ins Weisse Land) were the source for the vast majority of the film. But that is original research. The majority of texts, both written at the time and recently, do not mention Storfanger. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm seeing that several sources, including AFI, have Storfanger and Die Flucht ins weisse Land as the basis. If sources state that it is, although we are not certain, we can simply state "[So and so] writes that these two were the basis of the film, while [so and so] writes that these two were the basis." Both points of view need to be represented. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:08, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the text so that it only mentions an indeterminate number of books, and then added a footnote discussing which books and how many. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Might be worth mentioning AFI, which is a reliable source as well. Having only one of them supported by multiple sources is tantamount to implying "this one is correct". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I added the AFI source to the footnote. - Tim1965 (talk) 14:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Alright, looks good to go now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)