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Template:Did you know nominations/Elizabeth (BioShock)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rcsprinter (constabulary) @ 09:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Elizabeth (BioShock)

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Created by Bellum Stellarum (talk). Nominated by Bobamnertiopsis (talk) at 19:08, 9 November 2013 (UTC).

  • New enough, long enough. Once you have amended the text to include it, going with ALT1.--Launchballer 23:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
  • How do you mean, "amended the text to include it"? Both hooks are supported in the article and both facts in the article are supported by refs, if I'm not mistaken. Thanks, BobAmnertiopsis∴ChatMe! 07:10, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
The hook needs to appear in the text exactly.--Launchballer 10:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
  • WP:DYK#The hook, under Content, specifies that "The "Did you know?" fact must be mentioned in the article and cited with an inline citation since inline citations are used to support specific statements in an article." I don't think DYK has ever had a requirement that hooks be taken verbatim from articles because many articles are simply not written in such a way that a sentence could easily be pulled out and placed on the main page as-is. However, the requirement that the fact(s) from the hook be cited in the article is a very rigid one and I believe that they are. From the article: "Levine, Draper, and Booker's voice actor Troy Baker worked collaboratively, and would talk about scenes and improvise new lines.[19]" Source 19 then gives us: "The three go into the studio together, talk about scenes, improvise new lines, challenge each other to find the perfect read — and scrap what doesn’t feel right." If you think it's really necessary, I can try and reword that bit from the article, although my impression has always been that DYK hooks should be changed to reflect the articles/sources, and not the other way around. BobAmnertiopsis∴ChatMe! 20:09, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
I had always taken that to mean 'the hook must appear in the article verbatim' - BlueMoonset?--Launchballer 20:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Launchballer, the hook does not have to appear in the article verbatim. You should probably read through WP:DYK and WP:DYKSG for the actual DYK rules. Each fact in the hook must be included somewhere in the article, and cited by an inline source citation no later than the end of the sentence in which the hook appears. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:44, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
compromise? Victuallers (talk) 08:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I don't see what "helped to" adds to the hook: it's longer, less interesting, isn't more accurate, and isn't any closer to the actual article text (which isn't a DYK requirement anyway). I definitely prefer ALT1 to ALT2. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:26, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Hmm are you telling me that compromise is not as good as the way you want it to be? Because that's what compromise is. The words I suggest are longer, less interesting, less accurate... but are intended to be closer to the meaning in the article. If you don't like this compromise then suggest one of your own. Restating your position may also work, but I think its a flawed position. Victuallers (talk) 23:34, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
  • No, I'm saying that I don't understand the point of your "compromise", when one of the positions in this review—Launchballer's—was based on a false premise, that the hook must be a verbatim copy of text from the article, which is in no way a DYK requirement. Why compromise with an erroneous position put forth by a novice reviewer? Neither hook was proposed by me: from what I could see, you were proposing something that didn't address the issues raised. It looks to me that we both think the other's position is flawed; perhaps a new, experienced reviewer can be found to sort this out, since it seems in danger of getting sidetracked.
New reviewer needed to check the various hooks based on the actual DYK criteria, including whether they are supported by the article text and its sourcing. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Prefer ALT1 (which is also better supported in the article). New enough, long enough, interesting hook, reference checks out. As Blue points out, hooks need not be verbatim; they can be summaries, rewrites, or whatever, so long as everything is supported by references. No close paraphrasing found. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
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