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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 05:38, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Elendil

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  • ... that J. R. R. Tolkien compared Elendil to the biblical Noah? Source: Tolkien compared Elendil to the Biblical Noah, who similarly escaped from the wreck of a civilisation by ship. Carpenter, Humphrey, ed. (2023) [1981]. The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien: Revised and Expanded Edition. New York: Harper Collins. ISBN 978-0-35-865298-4., Letter #131 to Milton Waldman, late 1951
  • ALT1: ... that J. R. R. Tolkien conceived the idea of his character Elendil during a friendly writing competition with C.S. Lewis?Source: Tolkien wrote in a 1964 letter that the Elendil story began when C. S. Lewis and he agreed to write a space travel and a time travel story respectively. Carpenter (1981), Letter #257 to Christopher Bretherton, 16 July 1964
  • ALT2: ... that J. R. R. Tolkien conceived of Elendil in competition with C. S. Lewis?Source: Tolkien wrote in a 1964 letter that the Elendil story began when C. S. Lewis and he agreed to write a space travel and a time travel story respectively. Carpenter (1981), Letter #257 to Christopher Bretherton, 16 July 1964
  • ALT3: ... that J. R. R. Tolkien invented Elendil for a time travel story? Source: Tolkien wrote in a 1964 letter that the Elendil story began when C. S. Lewis and he agreed to write a space travel and a time travel story respectively. Carpenter (1981), Letter #257 to Christopher Bretherton, 16 July 1964
  • ALT4: ... that J. R. R. Tolkien invented Elendil in competition with C. S. Lewis? Source: Tolkien wrote in a 1964 letter that the Elendil story began when C. S. Lewis and he agreed to write a space travel and a time travel story respectively. Carpenter (1981), Letter #257 to Christopher Bretherton, 16 July 1964
    • Reviewed: QPQ not needed as I am under 5 credits.

Improved to Good Article status by Chiswick Chap (talk). Nominated by EpicPupper (talk) at 23:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
  • Interesting: No - x
QPQ: None required.

Overall: The article meets requirements but I don't think the hook works. A lot of Wikipedia readers aren't familiar with the details of the story (either LOTR or the Bible) and won't understand this comparison. (t · c) buidhe 01:59, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

@Chiswick Chap:, any thoughts on a better hook? 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 04:53, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
You could gloss him, e.g. as "the hero Elendil" or "Aragorn's ancestor Elendil" or as "High King Elendil" I guess. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:10, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
@Chiswick Chap:, perhaps something like "J.R.R. Tolkien conceived the idea of his character Elendil during a friendly writing competition with C.S. Lewis"? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:04, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Up to you. It's a bit long. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 04:25, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Added as ALT1. I personally like it. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 04:02, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
I mean, the vagueness of the hook could be its strength, were it not for the fact that it's the author making the comparison (in which case it's kinda ehhh). theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 04:25, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
I guess you mean the first hook, where the brevity and vagueness are certainly inviting. But I'd go for a shortened form of ALT1, I'll call it ALT2 now. Or we could go with time travel, ALT3, maybe that's the most surprising. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:12, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Pinging buidhe to check the two remaining hooks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:31, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Maybe someone else would disagree, but I don't think ALT3 or ALT4 can be considered interesting to a broad audience since both presuppose knowledge of fictional works to "get" the hook. (t · c) buidhe 02:36, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Not really. ALT3 and ALT4 especially don't need the reader even to have heard of Elendil. Talk of a broad audience is disingenuous since hundreds of millions have bought the book, and hundreds of millions more have seen the Jackson films or played video games. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
I think the words "Tolkien" and "time travel" together in ALT3 are sufficiently intriguing; both are widely known. Perhaps anchoring it with additional touchpoints might help, even though it makes for a longer hook (131 characters):
ALT5 uses the ALT3 sources, the "main mythology" quote (albeit with "middle-earth" inserted into it), and "Middle-earth" from the biography section. I suppose it could end "in his Middle-earth novels?" or "Middle-earth books?", if that's smoother. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Approve Alt 5. --evrik (talk) 03:05, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
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