Template:Did you know nominations/Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:23, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre

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Beethoven in 1803

... that Beethoven (pictured) composed "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", paraphrasing Psalm 19, as part of a 1803 song collection on texts by Gellert, but it later became famous in choral arrangements? Source: several

Reviewed: Robin Hood's Larder
Comment: 2020 is a Beethoven year, also a year of psalms, - have both ;)

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 16:40, 21 December 2019 (UTC).

New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced. Unable to check for close paraphrasing as most sources are foreign-language. However, the one English-language source, Schimer, does not verify the fact that Thomson's composition became "popular". I added a cite for the publication of the song collection in 1803; please check that it is correct. Image is freely-licensed; it's nice to see a portrait of Beethoven in his younger years, and it matches the composition date! QPQ done. Yoninah (talk) 14:19, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Sigh, thank you, another sentence you find in German, translate, and then search for a ref or two. - Popularity of the choral versions is certainly given, but I couldn't find a source just saying that. So:

ALT1: ... that Beethoven (pictured) composed "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", paraphrasing Psalm 19, as part of a 1803 song collection on texts by Gellert, and Virgil Thomson arranged it for choir while he studied at Harvard? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:07, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

I've struck ALT1 as being over the 200-character limit. (It's 219, though it counts as 208 since "(pictured)" is exempt.) Sorry. (Also struck the original hook due to the verification issues above.) Here's a possible ALT2 that's 14 characters shorter:

ALT2: ... that Beethoven (pictured) composed "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", which paraphrases Psalm 19, as part of an 1803 song collection on texts by Gellert, and it has since been adapted for use in hymnals? —BlueMoonset (talk) 18:29, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer, but the hymnal corner is rather what I'd like to avoid. It became the title work of secular concerts - see external links, a CD subtitled "Berühmte Chöre" (Famous chorusses). The four hymnals look pretty unimpressive, - none of them has an article.

ALT3: ... that "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre" is a 1803 composition for voice and piano by Beethoven (pictured), setting a paraphrase of Psalm 19 by Gellert, which Virgil Thomson arranged in English for choir?

@Gerda Arendt: OK, but not the hookiest for an image slot. Can we move some things around?
ALT3a: ... that Beethoven's (pictured) 1803 composition "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", a paraphrase of Psalm 19 by Gellert, was arranged in English for choir by Virgil Thomson over 100 years later? Yoninah (talk) 21:01, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: better:
ALT3b: ... that "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", an 1803 composition by Beethoven (pictured) which paraphrases Psalm 19 by Gellert, was arranged in English for choir by Virgil Thomson over 100 years later? Yoninah (talk) 21:04, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer, but I have three concerns: 1) if we don't say "for voice and piano" (or "lied"), the choral arrangement makes little sense, 2) the composition can't "paraphrase", it's Gellert who did that, 3) I don't see how the 100 years later make it more attractive, - readers probably already know that Beethoven remained popular and interesting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:15, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

So:
ALT3c: ... that "Die Himmel rühmen des Ewigen Ehre", an 1803 composition by Beethoven (pictured) for voice and piano, paraphrasing Psalm 19 by Gellert, was arranged in English for choir by Virgil Thomson?

I gave you the image slot, but frankly, this is not hooky. Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

I find it hooky that Beethoven set a paraphrase of Psalm 19, and don't think many know that. (I also found it hooky that the piece that became famous - big choir and orchestra - is not what he composed - small one voice and piano, - but it's hard to reference.) I am not against the 100 years if you believe that's it, was just asking. It still sounds as if Beethoven paraphrased (and Gellert wrote the psalm). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: how about just saying less? Yoninah (talk) 22:37, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Please suggest, bedtime overdue. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:40, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

new day, thoughts in bed about the phrase runnung from Psalm 19 to a pop singer's tour program:

*ALT4: ... that "Die Himmel rühmen!" (The heavens praise), beginning an 1803 song by Beethoven (pictured) who set Gellert's wording of Psalm 19, became the title and part of choral concerts, and of a pop singer's tour programs?

Wordsmiths, please take what you like from these building blocks. I'm reluctant of giving the singer prominence, but the last tour I saw (no. 4) was 2013. - I believe that if an image is attractive, we don't need extra hookiness, and could just factually inform, though, and I'd prefer to mention the song collection, for which hookiness has no room. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: thank you, ALT4 is nice. Foreign-language hook refs AGF and cited inline. ALT4 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 13:45, 30 December 2019 (UTC)