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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:48, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Class of 2018

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[[File:|120x133px|Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro ]]
Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro
  • ... that the 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018 is the first-starring role of Sharlene San Pedro and Nash Aguas (pictured), who used to do sketch comedy in the variety show Goin' Bulilit when they were little? Source: "Former “Goin’ Bulilit” stars will reunite in the upcoming action thriller “Class of 2018." (link)
    • ALT1:... that the 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018's director Charliebebs Gohetia chose Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro (pictured) as the lead cast because he believes people want them to work together as a love team? Source: "we decided ‘Okay let’s give it to Nash and Sharlene.’ It turns out there has been a clamor for their love team" (link)
    • ALT2:... that the 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018 is a fulfilment of the NashLene fans' (derived from the names of the lead cast Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro (pictured) wish? Source: "The movie is kind of a dream come true for NashLene fans because they’ve been crying for the two young artists to have a love tandem on screen." (link)
    • ALT3:... that the main cast of 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018 were the same people who used to do sketch comedy in the variety show Goin' Bulilit when they were little? Source: same as main hook.

Created by 001Jrm (talk). Self-nominated at 08:13, 11 November 2018 (UTC).

  • Thanks for claiming, I guess. ^^ Here's my pre-comment: ALT1 and ALT2 may sound fancruft-y but I can't say the same for the main hook/ALT3. The main cast started young (like kids aged 4yrs up) and they had a show (Goin Bulilit) wherein they do comedy and sitcom. The same kids (who are now 19 yrs up) were given the lead roles for the first time and it's action-thriller (so much different from comedy). Fun fact: Usually in the Philippines, rom-com or coming-of-age genre is given for actors' first starring films (link of the actress explaining how people hope for them to do a coming-of-age film) because moviegoers tend to want to watch it more than suspense/action/thriller. That's also the reason why "love teams" are a thing in the country; thus, ALT1 and ALT2). SO I think my hooks are based on plain facts, which I just reworded to make it more interesting. Thanks! :) 001Jrm (talk) 07:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Another issue is that these hooks might be interesting to a broad audience. As a Filipino myself, the hooks focusing on Goin' Bulilit (obscure outside of the country) may not work out for international tastes. I'd suggest you try proposing hooks that don't involve Goin' Bulilit or the love team. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:28, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
  • How 'bout...
  • ALT4:... that the 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018's director Charliebebs Gohetia describes his film as a first in the Philippine cinema because he reinvented the genre in which he mixed multiple genres into one film?
  • ALT5:... that Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro (pictured), who were given their first-starring roles in the 2018 Filipino action-thriller film Class of 2018, were initially told they were going to play the second lead characters? 001Jrm (talk) 05:09, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
  • @001Jrm: Okay, I apologize for the delay as I have been busy with real-life work. Right now, I don't think the article as it stands is ready. First of, the "Mallshows and TV guestings" section is unreferenced, and arguably is merely trivia. At best the content could instead be shortened and included in the "Marketing" section. Secondly, is there no information about how well the film did in the Philippine box office? And third and most importantly, the article is a bit hard to read, with awkward grammar and paragraph constructions. I'd suggest that the article be given a copyedit, perhaps by the people at WP:GOCE, before this can push through. For the proposed hooks, my preference is ALT5, but at more than 220 characters, it is far beyond the 200 character limit and thus has to be made more concise. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and made a request at WP:GOCE. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
  • The copyedit was done a few days ago, so this is ready for another look. The nominator hasn't edited since last month though, so this has to be taken into account during the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:30, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I was waiting for the copyedit so I didn't touch the article unless asked to. I went for a vacation afterwards in mid-Dec so I wasn't able to reply. Sorry for not replying right away. For the mallshows, I have the sources for the "Mallshows and TV guestings" section but I thought I wouldn't need to add them one by one as I just mentioned them. As per your suggestion, I put everything under "Marketing" section. For the box office, I see some blogs/Facebook pages about it though I don't know where to get the original/valid source so I left it blank. Lastly, there's this one copyedit wherein I don't know what do to since I just quoted it directly from what the director of the film. Should I interpret it (which I think is not possible) or just leave it?
  • ALT6:... that Nash Aguas and Sharlene San Pedro (pictured), who were given their first-starring roles in the 2018 Filipino thriller film Class of 2018, were initially given the second lead character roles?

001Jrm (talk) 04:14, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I still feel that ALT6 might be a bit too long, but I'll accept it if there's no way to make it shorter. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Article looks better now, but the article currently has a "which?" tag in it. Plus there's no information about its box office performance. @001Jrm: Will you be able to find box-office figures for the film? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:27, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
'Which' tag has been taken care of. Box-office? This Facebook page (Philippine Box Office) mentions the film's box office but it's not a good source. Although its About page points to this page (Box Office Mojo - Philippines) which I believe is a valid source, I only see Hollywood films on the list. Is it because I'm outside of the Philippines? Thanks! 001Jrm (talk) 03:54, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
For that matter, BOM doesn't list box office grosses for it either checking from here. I might need to ask for a second opinion on this aspect. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:52, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Requesting second opinion regarding the box-office gross issue, it's the last remaining thing preventing me from giving this the tick. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:09, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I would have accepted Facebook as a reliable if the page was a verified account, but since it is not, I don't feel comfortable using it here. I made this decision per WP:FACEBOOK. In addition, I have a few questions about the sources used in the article. A lot of them are from Twitter (which in theory is fine if used with caution), but they are not from verified accounts. This would make them unreliable per WP:Twitter-EL. I've also added two "Citation needed" tags.
Can this be fixed? The rest of the things in this nomination check out: hook is cited, layout is good, article was new at the time it was nominated, no copyright violations, etc. Please ping me if you have any questions. MX (✉ • ✎) 21:06, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
I think it would depend. Despite the lack of a verified tag, that account I guess might be allowed if it was the Twitter account of someone in the production staff. If however it was just a fan's account, then it's definitely not usable and the references should be replaced. @001Jrm: Can you please elaborate on the situation here? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:24, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
All of my sources from Twitter are from the production staff's own accounts (@bebsisms is the director; @prodsthatmatter is the production company). Their lack of verified tags and my use of them as sources is because they came from an independent company and they (independent companies in the Phil.) usually do their promotions/info digitally or online. I may use the lead actress' verified Twitter account @shar_sanpedro but I believe directly using the director and production company's accounts instead are more appropriate. Also, new citations are added for the citation tags. Thank you! 001Jrm (talk) 03:13, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Alright, 001Jrm's explanation above is reasonable. Article is ready for the Main Page. The rest of the review stands. MX (✉ • ✎) 07:47, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Pulling, with due apologies. I'm unable to find where the article says that Nash Aguas was cast in a secondary role before being given the lead role. The article also does not use the term "second lead", which sounds contrived to me. Finally, a fair amount of the language is bordering on cruft. We do not need quite this many sound-bytes, and we cannot say things like "Nash Aguas' good acting performance was already expected" in Wikipedia's voice. I'm also concerned by the use of twitter as a source in a number of places. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

  • @Vanamonde93: The hook is supported by the following text: "Class of 2018 marks the first film of Aguas and San Pedro as lead actors as well as their first film together as a love team ... The first time San Pedro learned about the project, she was offered to do the character of Princess (which became Fulgar's role later on). The lead roles were initially given to different actors. She thought the story was something new so she accepted the supporting role. The day before the screen test, she was told that she would play Ada's character instead ... Other than scheduling conflicts with the initial actors, the production team felt Aguas and San Pedro would fit better for the roles of RJ and Ada, according to Gohetia."
Not sure if you saw our discussion over the Twitter sources above. Regards, MX (✉ • ✎) 23:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
  • @MX: Color me stupid, but I'm still not seeing it. The text in question says that San Pedro was initially offered a secondary role, and that the lead roles were initially given to someone else; but where does it say that Aguas was initially offered a secondary role? Also: I missed that discussion earlier, but I'm still not quite satisfied. It's one thing to take from twitter a detail that is necessary to the article but unavailable elsewhere (such as a trailer release date). It's quite another thing to rely on the director's tweets for a substantial portion of information, including production details. My concerns with cruft in the prose remain. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:22, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
  • A reference citing Aguas was initially offered a secondary role may not be clear on the written publications, but you'll hear him mentioning it on this video at around 5:18 mark. The video was taken on the day of the film's press conference and it was uploaded by a journalist. He was speaking in Tagalog but I can give you translations if needed. That's why I added a reference of that presscon event on the film's Wiki page (see reference #19) alongside the other references. Regarding Twitter citations, I can't do anything about it if you won't accept them since I only have those as references. Other than what's written under 'Pre-production', I believe the info written on the article are (or can be) supported by multiple references. Let me know what I can do to improve the article. Thank you! 001Jrm (talk) 22:35, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
  • @001Jrm: I'm happy to take your word for the translation, but that content needs to be in the article and sourced. My concern with twitter and other primary sources is the following. Everyone involved in the production of this film is likely to be promoting it on twitter. Therefore, by using those tweets as sources, we're running the risk that the article will be overwhelmed with WP:CRUFT. The solution is quite simple; it's to prune material any material that isn't either supported by independent secondary sources, or absolutely critical to the page. A more compact article with better sourcing serves our readers better, even if some details that fans would like to know are missing. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:43, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I believe an event can be a valid source, unless it's because it's part of my dyk hook? If that is so, I don't think I have the source for it. I agree that too much references from primary sources may sound like promotion, but the info I added are simply just stating facts. Regardless, I removed 'Pre-production' section and most details with twitter sources. Thanks! 001Jrm (talk) 08:20, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @001Jrm: Thanks for doing that; I actually think the article reads better now, in addition to being better sourced. I'm not certain what you mean about the rest of it; youtube is non-ideal, but if it's a legitimate interview published by a verifiable new source, it should be okay, and you should add that content to the article with the interview as a source. If not, we've to find a different hook. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:12, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
  • One additional suggestion; you've presented a number of quotations that are actually translations of Filipino, with the original quote in a footnote. I don't think you need do that. Simply paraphrase the Filipino quote (which you're doing already, to an extent, while translating) and remove the quotation marks and the footnotes. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:14, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Thanks! Regarding Youtube sources, I only have 2 (1 for ofc teaser; 1 for promo). I hope that's fine. As per your suggestion, I removed the footnotes and quotation marks and did a bit more of paraphrasing. I also found a video interview from a verifiable source for the hook, finally! (@ reference 14). Thank you! 001Jrm (talk) 00:14, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @001Jrm: I think we're nearly there, but the factoid about Aguas initially being cast in a different role isn't in the article. I'm willing to AGF that it appears in the interview, but it needs to be in the body of the article, too. Also, looking over the rest of this; personally, I find the hook about the sketch comedy show more interesting; but I'll leave that to the promoter. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:19, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
As a Filipino myself, I already noted the sketch show hook, and I don't know if it would work for a broad audience considering Goin' Bulilit isn't a worldwide-known series. If you think it's good, perhaps the hook might work in a rephrased version, but not in its current state. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:23, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
  • As far as finding an article for the hook, I don't think I can find what you're looking for so I can't do anything about it. I can only rephrase the hook and remove Aguas' name. As for the hook about the show, my first reviewer didn't accept that. I'm not too sure what to do next. Should I rephrase and bring up the hook about the show again or should we all wait for the/a promoter to comment? 001Jrm (talk) 22:52, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @001Jrm and Narutolovehinata5: I don't think the sketch comedy show needs to be named; two kids doing a sketch comedy show together, and then starring in a film together as adults, is still more interesting than an actor being offered a different part to the one she eventually played, I think. If that original hook were rephrased I'd be willing to okay this. Narutolovehinata, if you have further objections, I think you need to take over the review. Vanamonde (Talk) 05:06, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93 and 001Jrm: I'm sure this could be rephrased further, but this is the thought I had. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:41, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
I have boldly removed the word "previously", as that is clearly implied. ALT3a is good to go. Vanamonde (Talk) 06:50, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
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