Template:Did you know nominations/Charlotte Pistorius
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
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Charlotte Pistorius
... that Charlotte Pistorius corresponded with the writer Ernst Moritz Arndt?Source: [1]
- Comment: that's what she is known for, and he is well known, - best on her birthday 5 November
Moved to mainspace by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 13:38, 18 October 2019 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith - Interesting:
- The hook is too mundane. It's not surprising that two people write letters to each other.
| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Article is great as usual, but may not be hooky enough for dyk. Fiamh (talk, contribs) 11:04, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- It's a correspondence which is mentioned a lot in the literature. What do you propose? We can't help that Arndt isn't known like Shakespeare. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:17, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: I have been reading this article with interest, and making a few edits - I hope you don't mind, Gerda Arendt! What I find interesting is that a woman living in a small country town in early 19th century Germany, who was largely self-educated, the wife and daughter of not particularly notable pastors, corresponded with influential intellectuals such as Ernst Moritz Arndt and Friedrich Schleiermacher - and some of the letters she exchanged with them have appeared in editions of their correspondence published certainly in the 20th and 21st centuries (perhaps also the 19th?), so that she has become known as a letter-writer. I would suggest a hook something along those lines, perhaps:
- ALT1
... that Charlotte Pistorius, wife and daughter of country town pastors, corresponded with theologian Friedrich Schleiermacher?
- ALT1
- Some may think that's too much information, or again not surprising - but given that English readers mostly won't have any idea who either Arndt or Schleiermacher is, let alone Charlotte Pistorius, I think giving some context will help to make them interesting. What do you think? RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:51, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I watched your activities with interest and hope. Having to deal with three recent deaths in three days, I don't have much for anything else. I like your ALT, but am afraid it's again not saying much beyond letter-writing, and Schleiermacher is even the shorter name. How about mentioning the more significant printing of her correspondence. You could add "island" to make her even more remote. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I'm very sorry to hear that, Gerda. I will have a think about other possible wordings for a hook. (I did wonder about including 'island' somehow!) I've just added the Category of "Women letter writers" - it is something that quite a few women are known for, in times when women did not have many occupations open to them, but their letters have survived and been published, and their significance has been recognised. RebeccaGreen (talk) 17:04, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I am afraid I was unclear. I mean the Recent deaths in the In the news section: taking care of articles of people who recently died, and sometimes not even have an article. See my talk for Márta Kurtág, before goind to sleep it was Raymond Leppard, and an hour ago I found out about Hans Zender to whom I briefly talked once. Sad, but not in the family. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oh, I see! I am glad it's not your family or friends, but it's still sad. I hope to add more to Marieke Vervoort. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:07, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I am afraid I was unclear. I mean the Recent deaths in the In the news section: taking care of articles of people who recently died, and sometimes not even have an article. See my talk for Márta Kurtág, before goind to sleep it was Raymond Leppard, and an hour ago I found out about Hans Zender to whom I briefly talked once. Sad, but not in the family. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I'm very sorry to hear that, Gerda. I will have a think about other possible wordings for a hook. (I did wonder about including 'island' somehow!) I've just added the Category of "Women letter writers" - it is something that quite a few women are known for, in times when women did not have many occupations open to them, but their letters have survived and been published, and their significance has been recognised. RebeccaGreen (talk) 17:04, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I watched your activities with interest and hope. Having to deal with three recent deaths in three days, I don't have much for anything else. I like your ALT, but am afraid it's again not saying much beyond letter-writing, and Schleiermacher is even the shorter name. How about mentioning the more significant printing of her correspondence. You could add "island" to make her even more remote. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- Random drive-by comment from an observer: Not an expert on this at all, but as an outsider without much knowledge of the subject, I believe this may be a more interesting wording of the hook: ALT2:
" ... that Charlotte Pistorius, the widowed daughter and wife of rural German pastors, maintained correspondence with several prominent writers of the time who were so influenced by her that they published her letters?"To me, contrasting her humble roots/position with the level of her influence is what makes her most interesting.Kenmelken (talk) 18:44, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- Random drive-by comment from an observer: Not an expert on this at all, but as an outsider without much knowledge of the subject, I believe this may be a more interesting wording of the hook: ALT2:
- Thank you for the offer. We need to stay within 150 characters. How is this:
- ALT3:
... that the correspondence of Charlotte Pistorius, the daughter of a country pastor from the island of Rügen, with intellectuals such as Ernst Moritz Arndt was printed as part of their works?I guess that can be put more elegantly? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:52, 23 October 2019 (UTC)- How about a meshing of ALTs 2&3:
- ALT4:
... that Charlotte Pistorius, the daughter of a country pastor from Rügen, corresponded with intellectuals such as Ernst Moritz Arndt who were so influenced by her that they published her letters? - This manages to combine those ALTs, while still remaining 8 characters under the 200 limit. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:30, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think it was Arndt and Schleiermacher who published her letters, or their own - it was later generations who have selected and published their correspondence. So ALT2 and ALT4 are not entirely correct. I will think more. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:02, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- Note: I haven't even looked at the article; I just integrated what I perceived Gerda desired to be included from ALT3 into ALT2 to make ALT4. Sorry for the kibitzing, and thanks for checking, Rebecca. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 01:39, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for the offer, but striking the two that are wrong. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- Note: I haven't even looked at the article; I just integrated what I perceived Gerda desired to be included from ALT3 into ALT2 to make ALT4. Sorry for the kibitzing, and thanks for checking, Rebecca. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 01:39, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think it was Arndt and Schleiermacher who published her letters, or their own - it was later generations who have selected and published their correspondence. So ALT2 and ALT4 are not entirely correct. I will think more. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:02, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- OK, let's see how this sounds:
- ALT5: ... that letters that Charlotte Pistorius, self-taught wife of a country
townpastor, wrote to intellectuals Schleiermacher and Arndt were published with their works? - Hoping that has enough but not too much ... (Not sure if that should have a comma after Arndt or not - trying with.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:48, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
@RebeccaGreen and Gerda Arendt: Just noting that if there's no consensus on the hook, then I'm afraid this nomination may have to be failed. There's no rush at the moment, though we should preferably come to an agreement on the hook within the next week if we want the hook to run on November 5. It looks like the discussion's going pretty well, so I'll leave you to it. epicgenius (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
- Instead, you could just approve ALT5, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
- I suppose I can.
ALT5 per RebeccaGreen's review,and your agreement. epicgenius (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2019 (UTC) - Oops, sorry. Fiamh's review and RebeccaGreen's hook. epicgenius (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
- I like the new hook, great work everyone! Fiamh (talk, contribs) 22:22, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: where is the QPQ? Yoninah (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- Template:Did you know nominations/Rajini School --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:55, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: thank you. What is a "country town pastor"? Isn't "country pastor" enough? Yoninah (talk) 23:11, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- I don't know, and didn't write it. For me, country would suggest country village, not town, but what I don't know is if that would matter. All we want to say is the contrast of her humble background to the group of intellectuals. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: well, the article only says "pastor". I can't read the German source. Yoninah (talk) 13:36, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
- It says "local pastor", so it depends on what Reinkenhagen is, church pictured, no need for German to tell. I'd go for "country pastor" just because it's simpler. Had nothing to do with all of this ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
- Template:Did you know nominations/Rajini School --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:55, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- I suppose I can.
- Instead, you could just approve ALT5, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
