Template:Did you know nominations/Candice Cohen-Ahnine
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PumpkinSky talk 21:57, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Candice Cohen-Ahnine
[edit]... that Saudi Prince Sattam al-Saud faced an international arrest warrant for child kidnapping?
Created/expanded by Activism1234 (talk). Self nom at 16:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
WP:BLP concerns with hook. Article dates and lengths are good with the article adequately sourced to good quality news sources. Problem is with the hook. While the article is about a recently deceased woman, the hook focuses on a living man, with whom the dead woman had been engaged in a protracted legal dispute, and strongly suggests he has been involved with criminal activity. This violates the rule at Wikipedia:Did you know#gen4 stating, "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute." --Allen3 talk 00:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Alt1 - ... that Candice Cohen-Ahnine, a French-Jew, married Saudi Prince Sattam al-Saud and gave birth to a child with him? --Activism1234 00:36, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
- The only mention in the article of the marriage is in the Prince's counter-claims to the accusations made by Cohen-Ahnine. As only one side of the dispute appears to believe the marriage took place then we would still be promoting only one side of a recent dispute. --Allen3 talk 12:46, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
- The first section background states (I bolded the relevant words):
In 1998, Cohen-Ahnine met Saudi Prince Sattam al-Saud in London at a nightclub while Cohen-Ahnine was vacationing in London[1] when she was 18 years old.[2] In November 2001, their daughter, Aya, was born. The relationship between Cohen-Ahnine and al-Saud continued, despite their differences in religion and nationality,[2] until Prince al-Saud announced in 2006 that he was obligated to marry a cousin, but that Cohen-Ahnine could remain as a second wife. Cohen-Ahnine, however, refused to become a second wife, and the two parted ways.
- I think it's clear that they were married from this, as she's refusing to become a second wife by having the prince marry another person. --Activism1234 23:18, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
- It is not clear at all. Indeed, the newspaper articles cited give the claim that they were already married as coming from the prince's side only: an Islamic marriage in Lebannon and subsequent divorce. None that I saw state as an actual fact that the two were married, sticking to a word like "relationship". (If the two were unambiguously wed, the articles would have said so: it's far simpler, and it's the more usual situation.) We simply don't know whether they were truly already married at that point and the new marriage would result in her demotion from first wife, or whether he belatedly offered her to become his second wife when it was announced that he would be taking a first wife for dynastic reasons. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:05, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
- The passage I quoted is not written as from any one of their's particular claims. It simply says she didn't want to become a second wife - she was a wife, didn't want al-Saud to marry another girl also. --Activism1234 00:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
- While it is clear you believe the couple were married, the article's sources provide a much less certain picture of events. Two of the article's sources go so far as to describe Cohen-Ahnine as the Prince's mistress at the time he offered to make her his second wife.[1][2] With this level of uncertainty among the sources there is no way to know with whether the alleged marriage took place. --Allen3 talk 12:09, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
- The passage I quoted is not written as from any one of their's particular claims. It simply says she didn't want to become a second wife - she was a wife, didn't want al-Saud to marry another girl also. --Activism1234 00:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
- It is not clear at all. Indeed, the newspaper articles cited give the claim that they were already married as coming from the prince's side only: an Islamic marriage in Lebannon and subsequent divorce. None that I saw state as an actual fact that the two were married, sticking to a word like "relationship". (If the two were unambiguously wed, the articles would have said so: it's far simpler, and it's the more usual situation.) We simply don't know whether they were truly already married at that point and the new marriage would result in her demotion from first wife, or whether he belatedly offered her to become his second wife when it was announced that he would be taking a first wife for dynastic reasons. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:05, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Alt2 - ... that Candice Cohen-Ahnine, a French Jew, was engaged in a relationship with Saudi Prince Sattam al-Saud, and bore a child with him? --Activism1234 22:46, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
of ALT2. While not th emost exciting hook I have ever seen, ALt2 appears to satisfy all applicable DYK rules. --Allen3 talk 00:21, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. But I'd note, until this is promoted by an admin, I'm open to other ones. But I personally find it interesting for a DYK - how many times does a Saudi royal prince, an Arab, go out with a Jew? Not the most common thing in the world, to be honest here. --Activism1234 01:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
- Struck the unapproved hooks, and corrected "French-Jew" to "French Jew". If any other hooks are proposed, they will have to be approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
ALT3:... that the daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnine is a French-Jewish Saudi princess whom Nicolas Sarkozy, then French President, attempted to bring to France, but failed? --PFHLai (talk) 03:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
- I think I like this one better. But semantics-wise, I think it would be "... that the daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnine is a Jewish-Saudi princess whom former French President Nicolas Sarkozy attempted to bring to France, but failed?" I don't think that the child is considered necessarily a French-Jew, if the child wasn't born in France. Someone can have parents from Ukraine who moved to America and had a child, and that child would be considered American, not Ukrainian, I believe. Also the part with Sarkozy seemed too wordy to me, so I shortened that out. What do you think? --Activism1234 03:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
ALT4 - from above - ... that the daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnine is a Jewish-Saudi princess whom former French President Nicolas Sarkozy attempted to bring to France, but failed? --Activism1234 03:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
- At the time, Sarkozy was not yet former Prez, was he? --PFHLai (talk) 21:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
ALT5 - ... that Aya Cohen-Ahnine is a Jewish-Saudi princess whom former French President Nicolas Sarkozy attempted to bring to France, but failed? --Activism1234 03:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Alt6 - ... that the daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnine is a Jewish-Saudi princess whom French President Nicolas Sarkozy attempted to bring to France, but failed? --Activism1234 21:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)