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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 22:16, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

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Bonnie Tan, Goldwin Monteverde

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5x expanded by Howard the Duck (talk) and YssaLang (talk). Nominated by Howard the Duck (talk) at 22:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC).

Review for Bonnie Tan:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:59, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Review for Goldwin Monteverde:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:59, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I would like to give you a chance to explain why this belated nomination was presented here. Is there a precedence for this much slack being given regarding eligibility? Others may chime in on this issue.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:20, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Bonnie Tan was created on May 11 with ~215 characters. In May 19, I expanded it to ~648 characters. In May 28, I expanded it to ~1669 characters, over the 1.5k character limit , and over the 5x expansion from May 11. I then nominated it on May 30. This was nominated after 2 days.
Goldwin Monteverde was created on May 22 with ~1225 characters. In May 28-31 I expanded it to ~1817 characters, over the 1.5k limit. I then nominated it on May 30. (May 31st edit was for categorization). This was nominated after 8 days, and that would be okay for me if this article is not bolded, but remains in the hook. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
As I understand WP:DYKCRIT, the 5x expansion must occur in the 7 days leading up to the nomination. So I don't think either article qualifies by strict interpretation. I am not sure how much lenience is given here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:47, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
You have said you would be OK to go forward with Goldwin unbolded, but the one that is too far out of bounds is Bonnie Tan. I could let Goldwin slide by a day I think, but Bonnie Tan has to be unbolded. Please present a new Alternate hook with just Goldwin bolded and let's go forward with that. You will have to get Bonnie Tan promoted at GAC to make it eligible for DYK.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:10, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I thought Tan's article gets into WP:DYKCRIT than Monteverde's. The current blurb should suffice as Monteverde is still boldfaced there, although it can be rewritten to when he is mentioned first... Howard the Duck (talk) 12:39, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Which letter A-F in new do you think Tan qualifies under?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:27, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I figured this was less than 1,500 characters when I saw this (I didn't create these two articles), the target was that, considering I expanded it to 1.5k+ ers on May 27 from the stub-quality prior to that. I conceivably could've expanded it to 3.3k+ characters (~648 characters on May 27 -> 3.3k characters on May 30, but I thought 1.5k was the target. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:59, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Yes present an ALT that is "rewritten" so I can verify length and such.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:27, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Added ALT1 above. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:01, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger: Do you have any remaining concerns about this nom? Your last statement seems to suggest ALT1 is good to go. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

The problem remains that Bonnie Tan was not a 5x expansion within seven days prior to nomination (or even eight or nine days). What we could allow is if the Tan article were expanded from the 626 prose characters prior to the May 28 expansion (according to DYKcheck) to at least 3130 prose characters, the 5x would be satisfied—we allow people to continue expansion if they accidentally come up short. As Bonnie Tan has 1694 prose characters at the moment, this means nearly doubling the current length by adding 1436 prose characters, and supplying a second QPQ. The other possibility, of course, is to just go with ALT1.
Note to Maury Markowitz: as the Goldwin Monteverde review has not yet addressed the sourcing or neutrality, ALT1 is not good to go because the Monteverde review is currently incomplete. TonyTheTiger, I've removed the icons from the status line of your two DYK checklist reviews and replaced them with the proper entry, the "?" character. Please be sure to use the required characters, and not icons, within the review template, as you continue the review. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:26, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

ALT1: Goldwin Monteverde is new enough (when posted, ~22-30 May), just long enough, well constructed, good infobox, QPQ complete. Can't speak to the quality of cites, not being familiar with Philipino sports, but they passed the smell test for me. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:06, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

  • BlueMoonset has presented a second option. You could double the size of Bonnie Tan now during this review to pursue a double hook or you could go with a single hook now, which reserves the right to bring Bonnie Tan to DYK as GA in the future with later expansion.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:58, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
    • This is reasonable and can be done (considering the guy won back-to-back titles), but with the alt blurb currently written, he gets in the blurb anyway. Howard the Duck (talk)
  • My current concern is whether Spin.ph is a WP:RS.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Spin.ph is a division of Summit Media, which was the Philippines's largest magazine publisher, until they realized nobody pays for magazines anymore and went 100% online. I've used Spin.ph as references in DYK and even WP:FL before without issues. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:58, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
ALT1 isn't even in the article. SL93 (talk) 09:35, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Maury Markowitz Please make sure that the hook is in the article when reviewing. Another such issue is at Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Peck (RAF officer). SL93 (talk) 10:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Fixed. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
How do I verify that Spin.ph has an editorial process (and is a part of Summit Media)?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:56, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Spin.ph's About Us page states its relationship with Summit Media. I've personally used Spin.ph and other Summit Media properties in sourcing with no issue. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
This is a third party publication stating Spin.ph's relationship with Summit Media. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
We will need an article revision or an ALT2.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger: Revised. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:11, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
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