Template:Did you know nominations/Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Gatoclass (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff

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... that in Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff written by Sean Penn, the main character threatens to assassinate the US President "Mr. Landlord"? [1]

Reviewed: This is my second DYK.

Created by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk). Self-nominated at 03:52, 6 April 2018 (UTC).

New article created within 7 days of submission to DYK (just), comfortably long enough, referencing all fine, have checked all links. No copyvios according to Earwig's tool. The hook is interesting, so no issues there. Book cover is appropriately licensed. QPQ not required as this is the user's second DYK nom. Therefore, good to go. Well done! Fish+Karate 11:36, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Neither the article nor the source support the hook. A new hook will have to be found. Gatoclass (talk) 15:39, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- (ALT1) ... that in Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff written by Sean Penn, the main character sends a threatening letter to the US President "Mr. Landlord"? [2]

@Gatoclass, Fish and karate, and Cwmhiraeth: This was an easy fix. Was it necessary to demote it? ---Coffeeandcrumbs 18:46, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Obviously I thought it was necessary, do you think I want to make work for myself?

With regard to the proposed alt, I don't think it's sufficiently interesting. Surely you can come up with something better than that with a topic like this? Gatoclass (talk) 01:39, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I find it very interesting. And so did The Guardian and The Washington Times. ---Coffeeandcrumbs 02:22, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

We can make it more obvious by mentioning Donald Trump by name.---Coffeeandcrumbs 02:26, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: - the third paragraph of the source provided ([3]) details an assassination threat against Mr Landlord ("In one new scene, Honey writes a letter to the US president, named Mr Landlord" ... "we are a nation in need of an assassin"). As far as I'm concerned the hook is supported. @Coffeeandcrumbs: - the hook can't mention Donald Trump by name, as the book/source do not. How about:

- - (ALT2) ... that Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff by Sean Penn features a US president referred to as Mr Landlord, who has "French vanilla cotton candy hair"? [4]

That's definitely supported by the source. Fish+Karate 10:11, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not terribly keen on that Fish, I think we get way too many hooks that focus on trivial details. You could perhaps go with something like:

(ALT3) ... that Sean Penn initially denied he was the author of his critically panned novel Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff?

Other than that, if you want to stick to the president angle, is there anything in the sources to support the notion that the novel's president is a parody of Trump? If so, I think that would make for a decent hook. Gatoclass (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I have added three sources that refer to "Mr. Landlord" as an allegorical reference to Donald Trump, including the source below which does so in the title of the article: "Sean Penn’s debut novel features Trump allegory, assassination threat" ?

(ALT4) ... that in Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff by Sean Penn, Honey threatens to assassinate the US President "Mr. Landlord", an allegorical reference to Donald Trump? Source: The Washington Times

It isn't really accurate to say he "threatens" to assassinate the president. It would probably be more accurate to say he recommends the assassination. I suggest the following:

... that in Sean Penn's novel Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff, Honey recommends the assassination of the US President, Mr. Landlord, whom critics have noted bears a resemblance to Donald Trump? Gatoclass (talk) 18:26, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: I like it! We can go with that, exactly. Just a couple of things that could improve it:

"Suggests" is a better word. "Recommends" sounds weird in my ear. ---Coffeeandcrumbs 19:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
We can also shorten it slightly to "... Mr. Landlord, whom critics have noted resembles Donald Trump". "Bears a resemblance" is verbose for no reason.---Coffeeandcrumbs 19:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

... that in Sean Penn's novel Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff, Honey suggests the assassination of the US President, Mr. Landlord, whom critics have noted resembles Donald Trump? ---Coffeeandcrumbs 19:33, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Fine by me, and I agree my suggestion was crap, but given every critic in the world has made the (very obvious) resemblance between Mr Landlord and Mr Trump, do we really need the wordy "whom critics have noted resembles", instead of the more straightforward "who resembles"? Fish+Karate 09:10, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm restoring this to prep with one small change. I agree "recommends" wasn't the right word but neither is "suggests", so I've substituted with "advocates" which is the word I was looking for. With regard to the mention of critics, I'm undecided so I'm going with the existing hook, but may adopt Fish and karate's suggestion a bit later when I've had more time to think about it. Thanks guys for the prompt response to the issues raised. Gatoclass (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC)