Template:Did you know nominations/Bill Cosby in advertising
The following is an archived discussion of Bill Cosby in advertising's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination's (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the DYK WikiProject's (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.
The result was: promoted by Miyagawa (talk) 22:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Bill Cosby in advertising
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- ... that, while he's well known as a pitchman for Jell-O pudding and Coca-Cola, Bill Cosby has advertised fruit, toothpaste, cars, cigars, film, and the US census?
- Reviewed: Nathan Hannay
- Comment: Okay, so I started writing this in summer 2011, but I stalled moving this to the article space until now, because I was trying my darnest to get the American Advertising Federation to release an image of their award ceremony, for use in the article and DYK. I was so bent on getting the image, that I ditched the article through multiple ignored attempts to contact them. I've given up on that pursuit, and decided to publish the article now.
Created/expanded by Zanimum (talk). Self nom at 18:22, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
- Article Issues
- Length is 10 217 bytes, way over minimum requirement.
- Moved from user space and nominated the same day, so date requirements satisfied.
- Policy - the article contains several statements that need work. It has had a GA review that identified plenty of areas for improvement and these are mostly excellent suggestions. Those suggestions have yet to be addressed. DYK does not require meeting GA standards but some of these issues really should be addressed for the article to be main page worthy, including sentence fragments, uncited quotes, and paragraphs lacking citations. Some of the content is of questionable relevance to an article on Bill Cosby in advertising, and a copy edit would be most welcome. Some specific concerns:
- References 5 and 7 are bare citations, which are unacceptable under supplementary rule D3
- Fixed.
- Citations are inconsistently formatted - not strictly a DYK requirement but it does look untidy.
- Fixed.
- Tenses are inconsistent. Most of the article is about the past and yet is written in the present tense ("Coca-Cola was ... deciding that their product would sell best if it used a sweeter formula") or uses needlessly complex constructions ("He was to be paid $1 million a year for the campaign" - either he was paid that, in which case "He was paid ..." would be adequate, or he wasn't, in which case that needs to be stated and explained).
- Pending.
- Second sentence of the article is: In alphabetical order, Cosby has been the spokesperson for Bird's Eye frozen foods, Coca-Cola (including New Coke), Crest toothpaste, Del Monte food, Ford cars, Jell-O pudding, Kodak film, Texas Instruments TI-99/4A computers, United States Census Bureau, and White Owl cigars. If the relevant ref(s) were added to this sentence then checking the hook would be much easier. I realise that citations are not mandatory in the lede but they are included in the second paragraph. Instead, I'll have to check for each product mention in the article, which is irritating. Anyway...
- Jell-O (pudding) – first sentence of the fourth paragraph of "Career in advertising" makes this claim but the sentence is uncited. The ninth paragraph of "Career in advertising" might support this claim (using reference 1) but this will need checking. The thirteenth paragraph (using reference 27) might also support this claim.
- Coca-Cola – first sentence of the eighth paragraph of "Career in advertising" makes this claim and is supported by reference 16 - I'll check it when other hook claims are referenced. The ninth paragraph of "Career in advertising" might support this claim (using reference 1) but this will need checking.
- Del Monte Foods (fruit) – The long quotation in the second paragraph of the "Integrity as an actor" section appears to support this claim, but is uncited. The long quotation in the third paragraph of that section certainly supports this claim, but is also uncited.
- Crest (toothpaste) – this product is not mentioned in the article except in the lede paragraph quoted above, and thus this claim is uncited.
- Ford (cars) – The ninth paragraph of "Career in advertising" might support this claim (using reference 1) but this will need checking.
- White Owl (cigars) – first sentence of the second paragraph of "Career in advertising" makes this claim but the sentence is uncited. The first paragraph of "Integrity as an actor" might support this claim, using reference 30, but this will need checking.
- Kodak (film) – third paragraph of the "Personality" section makes this claim and appears to be supported by reference 5.
- United States Census Bureau – twelfth paragraph of "Career in advertising" is trying to make this claim (I think) and appears to be supported by reference 26, which will need checking.
- Second paragraph of the lede, first sentence: The success of his program The Cosby Show, compared to previous efforts, has been attributed to his familiarity with audiences as a pitchman.[1] I have yet to check the reference but this statement needs work. The Cosby Show was a sitcom that ran for eight seasons, it won six Emmys and a slew of other awards, and was described by TV Guide as "TV's biggest hit in the 1980s." It was also a hit show internationally, in countries where most / all of Cosby's advertisements never ran. There may have been someone who attributed the success of the program to Cosby's advertising persona rather than to his comedic talents, etc, but that person is likely advocating a minority view. At absolute mminimum, information on who made this attribution is needed, and that person better have impecable credentials. Failing that, my gut instinct is that this statement is absurd. IF the statement can be well-sourced, however, it might make a suitable hook.
- Personality section - first two paragraphs have unattributed quotes, the quote at the end of paragraph three is attribute to "he" - is this Cosby, if so say so, if not attribute it. The second paragraph has only a single sentence, which should be incorporated within another paragraph rather than being left to stand alone. Also, very little of this section is about Cosby's personality but rather about his perceived credibility. Perhaps it should be re-titled?
- Career in advertising section - fifth paragraph is a single uncited sentence, it should be worked in to another paragraph (and it should be cited, though this is not mandatory for DYK).
- Cited. I've left it separate, as it was sort of a landmark acknowledgement for just midway through his career, and doesn't really fit with anything else nearby.
- Career in advertising section - sixth paragraph includes "Cosby was one of the only to command the million dollar contracts for a full campaign, as opposed to one-off ads" which is a sentence fragment, and needs fixing.
- Fixed.
- Career in advertising section - eighth paragraph includes "Cosby bought stock in a bottler that year, as part of the company's push to increase black company participation." I'm not sure what "black company participation" means, please clarify.
- Fixed.
- Career in advertising section - tenth paragraph includes "Hutton was hit by and a 1987 probe finding they laundered money" which is a sentence fragment, and needs fixing. The following sentence "The second came just a week before the the 1987 stock market crash" is also a fragment that needs completion.
- Career in advertising section - eleventh paragraph begins "By extension, The Cosby Show actors Phylicia Rashad, Malcolm-Jamal Warner, and Keshia Knight Pulliam endorsed Walt Disney World in a television spot, aired in 1988" and I do not understand what "by extension" means in this context.
- How does that work now?
- Career in advertising section - twelfth paragraph includes "To increase black participation in the 1990 United States Census, the bureau recruited Cosby, Magic Johnson, Alfre Woodard, and Miss America Debbye Turner." Presumably this is meant to mean that the bureau recruited them to appear in public service announcements / advertisements?
- Fixed.
- Hook Issues
- I will check the references when all the claims in the hook are adequately cited.
- Hook length is fine
- An alternative hook might be:
- ALT1: ... that, while advertising for Coca-Cola, Bill Cosby was portrayed pouring Pepsi into a can of New Coke?
- I find this more amusing and interesting, but others may disagree. The most interesting fact (to me) was Cosby's PhD dissertation, unfortunately it has nothing to do with the article's topic. Another hook could be:
- ALT2: ... that Bill Cosby's approach to advertising is that he wants "to make the program interrupt the commercial"?
- I offer these as I find a list of products he has advertised for dull, but that's just me. IF the Cosby Show claim is accepted then another possible hook would be:
ALT3: ... that audience familiarity with Bill Cosby from advertising has been claimed as the reason for the success of The Cosby Show?
- Hook neutrality is not a problem.
- QPQ reviewing requirement
- Zanimum (talk · contribs) did inded review Nathan Hannay for DYK and this has not been claimed for QPQ previously, so this requirement is satisfied.
- Other thoughts
- I will post at WT:DYK for others to comment on how much of what I raised above is necessary to pass DYK. Certainly the referencing of the hook facts needs to be addressed before this review can be concluded. EdChem (talk) 13:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC) PS: I have not done any copyvio check. EdChem (talk) 13:29, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
- Here's the revisions since January 21. How's it looking now? -- Zanimum (talk) 16:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- By the way, I do really like ALT2. I'm not crazy about ALT1, as it was just an editorial cartoon that happened to be referenced in a later publication. ALT3, no, based on the fact that I agree with your above comment that the statement is slightly absurd. I'm pretty sure I've entirely removed it from the article now. -- Zanimum (talk) 01:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'll also note, that if an ALT isn't chosen, the original hook should mention vegetables, not fruit. Cosby's quote in the article mentions Del Monte fruit salad, but it's actually their vegetables that he repped. (I hadn't found any references to that extent earlier on.) -- Zanimum (talk) 01:20, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Needs re-review now that various issues have been addressed. Striking ALT3 due to nominator comments. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
