The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that Big John Dodo sold 100 carved human heads to Lord McAlpine at $1,000 per head? Source: "McAlpine was a major developer in Broome, and operated an arts and artefact outlet from Broome Zoo that he also built. Through this outlet, he commissioned 100 heads for AU$1,000 per head" page 86 (PDF page 11)
ALT1: ... that Big John Dodo's carvings of human heads initiated an "almost unknown minor art movement"? Source: " The almost unknown minor art movement sparked by Dodo’s work can be regarded as a microcosm of art production in general [...]" page 37 (PDF page 20)
Overall: Please see comments below. The sources are strong - I think you just need to align some of the pages with the actual content being sourced. Also, need to sort out image within the article. It is listed as failing non-free content criteria. I sent you a message on your talk page about pictures of sculptures failing criteria for usage that is allowed with other art. The image should be on Wikimedia Commons rather than just on Wikipedia. Recommend you remove picture from article. What do you think of the following changes to the hook? ALT2... that Big John Dodo sold 100 human head sculptures to Lord McAlpine at AU$1,000 per head? Or... ALT3...that Lord McAlpine commissioned 100 heads from Big John Dodo? Dwkaminski (talk) 15:28, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
New enough - although page was created on March 27, it was moved to mainspace on Aug. 20
Long enough - Javascript Kit shows 6715 characters without infobox and references
Earwig's Copyvio Detector shows 23.7% - violation unlikely - most of it is from quotes and reference names
Sourcing - can't access McKelson or Banham references but AGF
Not clear on why Jorgenson p. 77 is added at the end of biography section. If it is only for his date of death - I would move it to after 2003.
It is for his year of death; citations are usually placed after punctuation per WP:CITEFOOT.
I see the reference in Jorgenson p. 88 about bringing his body from Broome. But I don't see anything in the reference stating he was interred at Bidyadanga.
From p. 88, third paragraph: "Mulardy [...] tells of bringing Dodo’s body back down the road [i.e. to Bidyadanga] from the town of Broome for Dodo’s funeral." If you don't feel this is explicit enough happy to remove the reference to Bidyadanga as a resting place.
It's fine. Dwkaminski (talk) 17:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
In the cultural leadership section - I don't see information about him being a "fully initiated member of the karajarri people" in Jorgenson p. 77. It calls him a ceremonial leader and a pikkra
Dodo's initiation is noted in the very next sentence. I have added page 82 to the first footnote, although the following sentence also references page 82.
cultural leadership section - not seeing any mention of Anna Plains station being the traditional lands of the Nyangumarta in Jorgenson p. 82
Anna Plains is noted as Nyangumarta country in the first sentence of page 82.
So I see the sentence that runs from 81 to 82 - "As a Karajarri man who had lived most of his life on Nyangumarta country on Anna Plains." - I don't believe that supports "Anna Plans station being the traditional lands of the Nyangumarta". Dwkaminski (talk) 17:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
cultural leadership section - for the pirrka statement - could use Jorgenson p. 77 instead - not necessary though
cultural leadership section - Jorgenson p. 79 does not support statement about 1995 native claim or 2002 land grant
The 2002 native title determination is stated in the second sentence of p. 79, the 1995 commencement date is on the following page.
I see it. Please just change the reference to pp. 79-80 Dwkaminski (talk) 17:13, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
cultural leadership setion - Jorgenson pp. 83-84 does not support statement about art attracting the interest of Helmut Petri
Not sure what you mean - there is extensive coverage of Petri and Dodo's interactions on these pages?
My bad - I was looking for Helmut but I see mention of Petri Dwkaminski (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
reception and analysis secton - Jorgenson p. 79 does not support the quote
The quote starts at the bottom of page 79.
please just change ref to pp. 79-80 Dwkaminski (talk) 17:19, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Comment: He didnt carve human heads he carved sandstone and misleading IMO to imply otherwise. Victuallers (talk) 15:53, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
It may not be intentional but why make the point about human heads at all.? I don't think Michaelangelo is known for carving human heads ... he carved heads, maybe people's heads but why mention the species? Is this article a human biography? ... or just a biography? Victuallers (talk) 22:08, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
@Victuallers: Thanks for highlighting the issue. Agree that it should not be carved human heads, but I think adding human heads makes it more interesting and it could be misinterpreted that it was animal heads that he carved. Dwkaminski (talk) 13:09, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
I see your point, I don't mind .... but I might if I was an "Indigenous Australian cultural leader", just saying Victuallers (talk) 22:08, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
User:Dwkaminski see my responses in red above. As mentioned on my talk page, the tag on the image relates to a previous higher-resolution version of the image which was reduced by a bot. I won't be removing the image, however you're welcome to nominate it for deletion if you feel it doesn't meet the fair use criteria. ITBF (talk) 16:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
@ITBF: I will be the first to admit I am not clear on the usage of non-free content criteria. Still not sure why the image is not in wikimedia commons. Please make the minor changes I added above. let me know your thoughts on ALT2 or ALT3. I'll mark as unsure once these are complete and get a second opinion on the non-free content usage. Thanks! Dwkaminski (talk) 17:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
@ITBF: This seems to have stalled. I see the requested changes to the referencing have been made. Please let me know where you are on my comment about the reference for "traditional lands of the Nyangumarta" and the proposed ALTs and we can keep this moving forward. Dwkaminski (talk) 12:37, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for following up User:Dwkaminski. When the source talks about "Nyangumarta country" that is basically a synonym for traditional lands - "country" (as in Welcome to Country, often capitalised) has developed a specific meaning in Aboriginal Australian contexts. See here for some background. I think either ALT1 or ALT3 would be my preference. ITBF (talk) 13:37, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
OK. My review is complete. New hook would be ALT3...that Lord McAlpine commissioned 100 heads from Big John Dodo? I'm keeping this at maybe because I need help with the question on non-free content image in the article. Appreciate any and all help. Dwkaminski (talk) 19:16, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
I received guidance that the non-free content is OK - see conversation on the DYK talk page. Approving ALT3. Thanks! Dwkaminski (talk) 19:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Please see comments below. The sources are strong - I think you just need to align some of the pages with the actual content being sourced. Also, need to sort out image within the article. It is listed as failing non-free content criteria. I sent you a message on your talk page about pictures of sculptures failing criteria for usage that is allowed with other art. The image should be on Wikimedia Commons rather than just on Wikipedia. Recommend you remove picture from article. What do you think of the following changes to the hook?