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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Rcsprinter (rap) @ 15:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Barbeque Nation

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  • ... that Barbeque Nation, a restaurant chain, has a live grill placed on every table of its outlets enabling guests to prepare food on their own according to their tastes?

Created/expanded by Vensatry (talk). Self nom at 15:27, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

  • New enough and long enough at time of nomination. Image in article has fair use rationale. QPQ done. Plagiarism check here, here, here, here and here does not send off any major alarm bells.
  • Given that the article is sourced to articles I think help establish WP:GNG, I want to say the article is probably as neutral as it can get. It might need another set of eyes or two to help make it read more neutrally.
  • I think the hook fact reads a bit like an advertisement. Alt1 is from the article and supported by sources in the article. Does this work or can the nominator propose a hook that does not read like an advert? --LauraHale (talk) 11:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT1 ... that Barbeque Nation plans invest ₹100 crore (US$12 million) to open 35 new outlets in other cities of India by the end of 2012?

More neutral hook required. --LauraHale (talk) 11:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

  • I agree that it reads more like an advert. Since I can't find an interesting hook with the existing content, I'm suggesting a new hook.
  • ALT2 ... that Miele Guide has listed Barbeque Nation as one among the top 20 restaurants in India? —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:16, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Hook seems to be promoting the place. It isn't interesting. Think of the most boring thing you can hook from the article that is not promotional and I will pass or find some one who will pass alt2. --LauraHale (talk) 20:10, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Fine with alt1. —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:16, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


  • ALT1 ... that Barbeque Nation plans invest ₹100 crore (US$12 million) to open 35 new outlets in other cities of India by the end of 2012?


Good to go with ALT1. --LauraHale (talk) 20:55, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude. But this hook is so dull. "XYZ is investing huge money in business". The original hook of "guests can grill on their own" is more hook-y in my opinion. Not that i would go to a restaurant that makes me cook and charges me back. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 12:04, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the above comment. The new hook is not truly a hook, imo. Having a grill at every table is more interesting (though common in Korean-style BBQs, fwiw). Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:00, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
The problem is nothing about that is particularly remarkable and it reads like an advert that would appear on the front page. --LauraHale (talk) 22:00, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT1 is not accurate: it's based on a March 2008 source (#5) that says that the 35 restaurants would be open "within a year"; since the 20th restaurant was opened little more than a week ago, it's highly unlikely that they hit 35 in March 2009, and we shouldn't have a hook that says it will. I'd like to suggest either of the following hooks. Admittedly, this time the claim (source #6) is for another 30 restaurants by March 2013—I'll let you decide whether a single source saying that there are 20 restaurants and will be another 30 allows the hook to add them together to get 50:
  • ALT3: ... that 20-restaurant chain Barbeque Nation, which places a live grill on each of its tables, plans to open its 50th outlet in March 2013?
  • ALT4: ... that 20-restaurant chain Barbeque Nation, which places a live grill on each of its tables, plans to open another 30 outlets by March 2013? —BlueMoonset (talk) 03:23, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Second opinion required on hook neutrality in terms of reading like an advertisement. --LauraHale (talk) 03:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Thats wrong. We cant have hooks like "Did you know that this is going to happen in future?" when we can not be certain of it at all. Especially in this case. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 13:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
If the business plans are out of bounds, let's go back to a variant of the originally proposed hook, worded so that it seems less promotional:
Well, what's wrong with alt2? —Vensatry (Ping me) 17:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I thought Laura's points on ALT2 were germane. If you don't like any of the later ALTs, you're welcome to come up with something else. Three's my limit. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Alt5 is good with me. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 04:45, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Fine for me too. —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:34, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT5 good to go. Checked paraphrasing myself, looks acceptable (what bits are close are non-creative lists). Tick based on above review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

ALT5 reads like an advertisement. You can go to McDonalds and order a big mac if you wish. A hook needs to be found that is not an advertisement. --LauraHale (talk) 05:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Laura, you asked for a second opinion on hooks in general. You may not like this one, but I don't see any way of describing what they do without someone claiming that it's an advertisement. Frankly, I think it sounds a bit silly that they make their customers do their own grilling and not at all a selling point, but to not let this odd fact into the hook—the basic way the restaurant works—doesn't make sense either. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Not completely unheard of. I can think of two or three in Jogja that do it (mostly Japanese/Korean places), but they use gas grills, not charcoal.. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


This article reads a bit like an advert: "according to their tastes" "after its success " "most preferred ". --LauraHale (talk) 05:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Good point about "success" and "most preferred"; in the interests of moving this along, I've changed the former to "start" and the latter sentence has been removed entirely. I don't object to "according to their tastes", but if you do, please feel free to adjust with a wording that suits you better. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

@Laura: This hook is definitely less promotional than the self-promotional hooks of Wikipedia that have been in DYK before. Example: Did you know that "....that the three day Wiki Conference India is running from 18th to 20th of November at the University of Mumbai?" has been in DYK? §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 08:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

@ AnimeshKulkarni: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not going to work for me when dealing with a hook that appears like non-neutral advertising. Article still reads as promotional. It's a business initiative with the idea of expanding into these markets. "The restaurant has a live-grille placed on every table so that the guests can prepare the food on their own, thereby enabling them to cook according to their tastes." also reads like an advert. "Every table has a live-grille" would be less advertising like. "Apart from the usual menu" also sounds like advertising, something I would see in a guide book. --LauraHale (talk) 00:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
  • After recent edits by Laura to remove promotional material and me to improve flow, the article stands at 1473 characters, which is too few. It will need additional, definitively non-promotional material to qualify for DYK. And, along those lines, a hopefully sufficiently non-promotional hook:
  • I'm not interested in this anymore. I never struggled like this before, of the 18 previous DYKs which I nominated. Henceforth, I withdraw the nomination. —Vensatry (Ping me) 05:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
They are grilling it as if its a FA nominee. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 07:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
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