Template:Did you know nominations/Banyan tree in Lahaina

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Yoninah (talk) 16:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Banyan tree in Lahaina

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~~... that the Banyan tree in Lahaina (pictured) with an extensive trunk and aerial root system covering 0.66 acres (0.27 ha) is not only the largest in Hawaii but also in the United States?~~

Reviewed: Creek Council Oak Tree

Created by Nvvchar (talk). Self nominated at 19:30, 17 November 2014 (UTC).

Length, newness, cites and hook all good to go. Find the hook a little wordy, suggest simplifying it to the base facts... Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

~~... that the Banyan tree in Lahaina, Hawaii (pictured), covering 0.66 acres (0.27 ha), is the largest tree in the United States?~~

User:Fram has alerted us on WT:DYK to be wary of hooks that claim "largest", "oldest", etc. The sources being provided for this fact are the County of Maui and the Lahaina Restoration Foundation. (By the way, the hook fact is not cited inline, right after the sentence, per DYK rules.) I just took a look at another article, Lahaina Banyan Court Park, which states that the tree is the largest in Hawaii and one of the largest in the United States, although neither of these statements are sourced. Are there independent sources that verify the tree's size? Yoninah (talk) 21:30, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Note, I have added three independent sources to the statement in the Lahaina Banyan Court Park article; a newspaper article from journalist Gary T. Kubota of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin; a book by Charles Randall of the American Forestry Association; and a newspaper article in the Naples Daily News. For more information, please see this diff. Viriditas (talk) 11:29, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I have added two book references for the hook, one which says it is the largest Banyan tree planted in the state in April 1873 [1] and another reference [2] which confirms that it is the largest Banyan tree in USA. There are several book references confirming these two facts. Alt hook suggested is fine with me.--Nvvchar. 05:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

It is disputed as to whether it is the largest Banyan tree in the US, with the sources showing the competing claim coming from Florida (Edison and Ford Winter Estates).[3][4][5][6][7] However, according to the Naples Daily News, both trees (in FL and HI) are about the same size.[8] Having looked at various photos (and the Maui tree in person hundreds of times) I would say that is true, but the Maui tree might be just a touch larger, but that's my own opinion, and could be wrong. Hawaii guide books also like to make exaggerated claims about being the biggest and the best, but I rarely take them at their word. Another problem is that the Banyan tree in Lahaina has not been doing well for the last five years, and appears to be in poor health with a shrinking stature. The other problem is that you forked this new article (along with yet another one) out of Lahaina Banyan Court Park GA. I don't think this DYK should be approved as all of this information already appears in the GA Lahaina Banyan Court Park article and is not unique in whole. Since you have forked two articles out of the GA topic, we appear to have a problem with your understanding as to how we create articles. As such, I suggest that this nomination should be failed. Much of the wording seems to have been copied from the Lahaina Banyan Court Park article, which has already gone through DYK on January 25, 2012.[9] Viriditas (talk) 06:54, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

We can certainly strike out the unnumbered ALT1 by Maury Markowitz. The source claims that it is the largest Banyan tree in the US, not the largest tree in the US. Simplifying to the base facts shouldn't mean turning a sourced claim into an unsourced stronger claim. As for the largest Banyan tree in the US, it seems to be, according to which source you read, either this onoe or one in Florida[10] Fram (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Fram, some people here are getting just a little tired of your inexplicable insistence on FACTS. Don't you know you're holding up the review process and exacerbating the backlog? EEng (talk) 13:38, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

There's no good evidence that it is the largest Banyan in the US and the nomination doesn't meet the rules requirements for newness and 5x expansion as the majority of the article was copied from an already existing article that already went through DYK. If it can be expanded 5x, then I would support, but of course it can't because I would have already done that back in 2012 and created a separate article. The article as it currently stands is virtually the same as the parent. The 5x expansion rule for adding material from already existing articles is very clear. When you compare the two articles, the user added a small paragraph of new material. That just doesn't qualify for DYK. The rules are very clear: when splitting off or copying material from other Wikipedia articles, you must expand it at least 5x. That didn't happen. Viriditas (talk) 20:32, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I withdraw the nomination.--Nvvchar. 04:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)