Template:Did you know nominations/Auguste Doriot

The following is an archived discussion of Auguste Doriot's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: rejected by Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 15:34, 30 March 2013 (UTC).

Auguste Doriot

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... that Auguste Doriot completed the 1891 Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race in a petrol-powered Peugeot quadricycle, but finished six days after the winning cyclist?

Reviewed: Harriet Pilpel

Created by Chienlit (talk). Self nom at 09:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

The article has some issues and I addressed some.[1] Some suggestions: put each reference in a Template:Citation. For the Ante book, use Notes to cite the page from where the material came (take a look at this to get an idea of how to cite to a page in the Ante book.) Except for the lead, each sentence should have a footnote attached after the sentence period. if you used the External links in the article, you should add each of them to the end of the sentence to which it supports. The body of the article does not mention "finished over a day behind the winning cyclist" and there is no citation for that in the article. The body of the article sentence mentioning 1891 does not have a reference attached to the sentence. The article main body mentions that the next day, they set off for Paris, so its not clear fro the main body of the article whether they completed the Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 07:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Chienlit (talk) 13:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Uzma Gamal, Where did you find his ... { {Death date and age 1953/01/10 ... It's not refed; not in the lead; nor in the category? I would like to add it to these. regards Chienlit (talk) 13:34, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Refs, cites and links Done (within the limits of my capabilities :). Hook changed/fixed and ref'd to Le Petit Journal. Thanks. Chienlit (talk) 20:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Is quadricycle in the hook italics per WP:MOSTEXT? Also, is the hook image a photo of Doriot's actual vehicle or is it an example petrol-powered Peugeot quadricycle? Either way, I think the article may need a reference to support what the hook is saying about the image. Also, I'm finding it difficult to locate the references in the article that support the hook and am not clear where the hook information appears in the main body of the article. The article sentence "Le Petit Journal reported their arrival in Brest on 12 September, one day after it reported winning cyclist Charles Terront's finishing the race back in Paris." establishes that Terront finished the race on 11 September, but that sentence does not have an inline citation to a reliable source as required by Wikipedia:Did_you_know#Eligibility_criteria. The sentence "Doriot arrived in Paris with cyclists 88-96 on 16 September to complete the Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race" establishes Doriot completed the race on 16 September. However, that sentence has eight references, which seems excessive. That sentence likely only needs one or two references to support the two facts of the sentence - Doriot 16 September finish of the race and cyclists 88-96 arrival with Doriot. Regarding the hook claim, "finished five days after the winning cyclist," I now see that the five days came from 16 September - 11 September. However, the "finished five days after the winning cyclist" needs to be mentioned in the article with an inline citation to a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Did_you_know#Eligibility_criteria. You should be able to source and add a sentence to the main body reading something like, "Although Doriot entered the race to prove that his "strange machine" was a reliable and effective transportation means,[2] Doriot's 16 September gas-powered finish of the race was five days behind pedel-powered cyclist Terront's 11 September win."[Cite #1, Cite #2] Also, the way the hook reads, "In 1891 Auguste Doriot completed the Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race" implies that there was only one Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race, but the Paris–Brest–Paris indicated that there were more than one race. Perhaps something like "... that Auguste Doriot completed the 1891 Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race in a gas-powered Peugeot quadricycle (pictured), but finished five days after the winning cyclist?" As for other matters: Article - New enough (created Feb 2 nom Feb 6), long enough,[3], reasonably within policy, no blp issues. Hook- 174 characters. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm still not sure about the image and I don't know whether having all the references at the end of one sentence instead of at the end of the sentence they support is reason to not approve the nomination. I'll let someone else review the nomination. I added an Alt1 without the image. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 13:49, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Alt1:... that Auguste Doriot completed the 1891 Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race in a petrol-powered Peugeot quadricycle, but finished five days after the winning cyclist? -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 13:49, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that the hook claims the picture to be the actual car, that's why it uses the indefinite article. 'A' petrol-powered Peugeot quadricycle. But if it is badly worded feel free to improve. (Personally I never expect the pictures to be used, too boring and only 1 hook in 6 achieves such heights.)
I think that the recommendation is to put refs at the end of the para, not after each sentence. Such a requirement is new to me and would interrupt the flow of the article.
I have added the relevant daily news reports from Le Petit Journal as Notes and translated their contents. Subtracting one newspaper publication date from another to derive the difference is no more own research than looking up every geo-coordinate on Google maps. I have added (and corrected :/ ) the statement in the body and the intro.
I think/hope that this answers all the points above. Regards. Chienlit (talk) 22:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

It's been a week; new reviewer needed to see whether outstanding issues have been addressed. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I have looked at this article a few times - I feel the refs still need work. For instance, ref #1 is actually the same book as ref #2 - ref #2 doesn't give any page numbers; the same book is then listed under 'other sources' and gives p. 299, which appears to be the index page? Overall, it is an interesting article that warrants spending time on. Chienlit, if you're not sure how to correct the refs from Uzma Gamal's example above, let me know and I will try to help. SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sagaciousphil, Thank you. Done. I have merged refs 1 and 2 and removed Other sources, so that Spencer Ante is now a single cited source. Is there anything else to be done? Regards Chienlit (talk) 00:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

p.s. I have removed the image from the hook.

p.p.s. I have just used 'your' use {T} Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books - re Ante2008. Thanks.

etc. I think I have addressed all of Uzma Gamal's points, but if you think differently then please let me know.

Chienlit, I hope you don't mind but I have tried to sort out the refs because page numbers need to be indicated - of course, please revert if this is a problem/incorrect! I have tried to include some of the page numbers when I was able to from using previews on google books. It still needs you to do a some work on the refs but I think it's almost there. Here is a brief list:

1. please check I have used the correct page numbers for the Ante refs I have included;
2. insert the missing page numbers for other Ante refs (currently shows as ref #6 with question mark for five instances);
3. insert missing page numbers for Georgano refs.

The reason I inserted some of the refs was I felt it was probably an easier way of letting you see what was needed, so I really do hope you don't feel it was presumptuous of me? I hope it helps?

I am going to be away from tomorrow (Tuesday) until next Monday, so just in case someone else picks this up I will list below the details I have checked:

Article - created new on 2 February, so new enough when nominated; 6815 characters of readable prose (excluding tables etc), so long enough; neutral; at least one inline citation to every paragraph; no copy vios detected using earwig/duplication detector; assessed as start class; and no apparent BLP concerns.
Hook - within length criteria at 159 characters; correctly formatted; correctly cited/supported by refs to notes 'Career (Peugeot)' section, then simple arithmetic to arrive at six days; and interesting. I have struck ALT1 hook as article states six days.
QPQ done; no image. SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to mention there is a DAB link to be sorted for Mortagne - but does not effect DYK. SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Much like in Chienlit's other nomination, the following sources appear to be self-published: Peugeot Fan Club, Team Dan, DFP, and Driver Database.--Carabinieri (talk) 00:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is happening with this nomination - Chienlit doesn't seem to have edited at all since 5 March. It would probably be possible to remove the refs Carabinieri mentions above, for instance removing the 'Race results' table would get rid of all the Team Dan refs without (IMHO) overly detracting from the article - I do appreciate we would really need something from Chienlit about this though. However, I can't see any way round finding the missing page numbers without input from Chienlit? SagaciousPhil - Chat 12:19, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

The nominator has not edited on Wikipedia since early March, and it's been two weeks since the most recent post here. Under the circumstances, and given the source issues, I don't see how the article can be featured on the main page via DYK, so I'm closing the nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:03, 30 March 2013 (UTC)