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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Arvind Sawant

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5x expanded by Royroydeb (talk). Self-nominated at 16:04, 31 May 2019 (UTC).

  • A better hook might be needed here as I don't think the company is well-known outside of India, and it would not be clear to our non-Indian readers how working for them is important. If anything, at the very least, additional context is needed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5:, that is what I wanted to mean - a person who started his career at an unknown company is now the union minister of India. RRD (talk) 10:52, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
It doesn't change the fact that the hook fact is simply uninteresting to non-Indian readers, and ministers having non-government jobs isn't very hooky to begin with. Can something else be proposed here? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:19, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
If @Royroydeb: doesnt mind then i can propose following hook:
ALT1: ... that Indian minister Arvind Sawant, who earlier worked with Mahanagar Telephone Nigam Limited as an engineer, was one of the members of 16th Lok Sabha who presented the most number of private member bills?

§§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 06:03, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

That hook is 205 characters which is above the limit. It could possibly be shortened to simply:
ALT1a ... that Indian minister Arvind Sawant, a former engineer, was one of the members of 16th Lok Sabha who presented the most number of private member bills?
Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:08, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Suggesting more crisp ALT2. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 05:01, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
ALT2:... that minister Arvind Sawant, who earlier worked with MTNL, was one of the members of 16th Lok Sabha who presented the most number of private member bills?
ALT2 doesn't really solve the issue of the fact that the company is not well known outside of India, and in any case doesn't really add much to the hook. In fact, ALT1a/ALT2 could be shortened to merely focus on his high number of private member bills, if anything. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
The hook in itself is not of interest to people outside India and many more things on the main page are similarly of not interest to many more other people of the world. Global interest will be rarely achieved and that am sure is not the aspect the main page is looking for. If you can drop off this point and approve the hook then please do it; or we can look for a different reviewer. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:28, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The hook in itself is not of interest to people outside India. That is precisely the problem here. DYK hooks are intended to be interesting to broad audiences (it's even stated in the rules), meaning that even people from outside the hook subject's specialization or country can appreciate them. It's entirely possible to make a hook about an Indian subject that at the same time could appeal to someone from Poland or Vanuatu. As it is, the apparent insistence on focusing on MTNL will not go much due to the lack of appeal outside of India. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:02, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Which hook are you ready to approve? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 01:44, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
At the moment, there is currently no hook that I'm willing to approve. Althought I proposed ALT1a, I can't approve it since I proposed it myself. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:01, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
New reviewer needed. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:58, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
  • ALT3 ... prior to becoming a minister, Arvind Sawant was working as a telecom engineer in state-run MTNL? This would work better. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:34, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
I would prefer hook ALT 2. RRD (talk) 04:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
  • The submitted QPQ review is actually a single question about the source of birth and death dates. QPQs must be complete reviews in order to qualify for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:21, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
  • After giving this some thought, I would be open to some form of ALT3. But since MNTL is not a well-known company outside of India, I feel that perhaps some context as to why the company is considered a big deal. Perhaps something like:
ALT4 ... prior to entering politics, Indian minister Arvind Sawant was working as an engineer in MTNL, the largest telecom company in New Delhi and Mumbai?
Of course that would mean that the "largest telecom" part would need to be mentioned in Sawant's article, and if consensus determines it isn't necessary, then ALT3 would be the preferred option since the "state-owned" part at least implies some kind of importance for the company. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:04, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Done. Added telecom share to the article. MTNL has over 50% market share in Mumbai and Delhi (which obviously makes it the largest), and I had specified that. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 13:29, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Just waiting for Royroydeb and Dharmadhyaksha's thoughts on ALT4 and this will be ready for a new review. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:58, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I have got no issues with the new hook. RRD (talk) 07:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

I have looked at the available hooks, and I do not see anything interesting about working at MTNL. It is in the form of "person worked at large company before going into politics", which is a summary of many politicians and does not provide interest to anyone outside of India. ALT1a is the most interesting hook because it focuses on what he did in parliament. Unless there are other hook suggestions, I feel ALT1a should be the approved hook. Flibirigit (talk) 15:42, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

@Flibirigit: The why don't you please approve ALT1a? After almost 3 months of stalling for "interesting-ness" i don't think Royroydeb has any objection to any hook appearing on main page! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 14:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
From what I can understand about what Flibirigit said, they are willing to approve the hook, they were simply asking if there were any possible alternatives first (i.e. perhaps a different direction). If there are none, the comment can probably be counted as an approval (just without the checkmark). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 16:02, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
My comment is NOT an approval. It is simply a preference. Flibirigit (talk) 16:27, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
ALT5 ... that despite being described as a "weak candidate", Arvind Sawant defeated his competitor as representative of the Mumbai South constituency in the 2014 Indian general election by over 120,000 votes?
This suggestion probably needs to be shortened since it's 200 characters, but I'm having trouble expressing the thought in a more concise manner (and in any case, it's only a suggestion at this point). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 16:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
I have struck ALT2, ALT3 and ALT4 for lack of interest. I will do a review for ALT1a and ALT5. Flibirigit (talk) 00:17, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.
Overall: Article was expanded fivefold within seven days of the nomination. Length and sourcing are adequate. Article is neutral in tone and plagiarism issues were detected. Both hooks are properly cited as per this article. The vote count is cited as per here. The source says 1.2 lakh votes, where lakh is equal to 100,000. No photo is used in this nomination or in the article. QPQ requirements are met. ALT1a and ALT5 are approved with no preference. Flibirigit (talk) 00:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
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