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Template:Did you know nominations/Arrest: Pat. Rizal Alih – Zamboanga Massacre

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:51, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Arrest: Pat. Rizal Alih – Zamboanga Massacre

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  • ... that Carlo J. Caparas co-wrote, directed, and released a film depiction of the Camp Cawa-Cawa siege within three months after it happened? Source: [1]:2 (January 6 news article about the siege) [2]:24–25 (confirms the film's March 8 release date).
    • ALT1:... that Rizal Alih discovered a film depicting his siege of a military base 22 years after its theatrical release? Source: "The renegade lawman explained that he learned of the movie “Arrest Patrolman Alih: Zamboanga Massacre” only last year [2011] when the policeman guarding his cell told him about it." [3] (Inquirer news article) [4]:24–25 (confirms the film's release date).
    • ALT2:... that a former renegade policeman discovered a film depicting his role in the siege of a Philippine military base two decades after its theatrical release? Source: "The renegade lawman explained that he learned of the movie “Arrest Patrolman Alih: Zamboanga Massacre” only last year [2011] when the policeman guarding his cell told him about it." [5] (Inquirer news article) [6]:24–25 (confirms the film's release date).
  • Comment: This is my first DYK nomination.

Created by LionFosset (talk). Self-nominated at 07:15, 22 June 2020 (UTC).

  • ALT0 doesn't match well with any sourced sentences in the article. ALT1 is sourced and interesting, however its applicable source [7] puts the public release at 1991, not 1989. CMD (talk) 12:12, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Chipmunkdavis: Though not found within the sources exactly, the siege was reported on by the Manila Standard on January 6, 1989, while the film has an ad in the same newspaper on March 7 giving its release date as being on March 8, 1989. If it is still unacceptable, moving on to the alternative, The Philippine Star news article placing the film in 1991 is definitely an honest mistake on the writer's part, as there are other Manila Standard issues ([8] page 25, [9] page 26, [10] page 27) which clearly have the film in theaters in March 1989. LionFosset (talk) 12:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
The Inquirer article also says 1991. The ads shown are for the premier, which is very different from a public release. CMD (talk) 14:18, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: There are only a few sources about the film which one can find with a Google search, and it is likely one news article simply followed another as to what year the film was released. It is not a premiere, it is a grand opening; if one looks at the March 8 issue, page 24, under the "Movie Guide" section, numerous theaters began showing the film throughout Metro Manila on its grand opening date. LionFosset (talk) 06:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Certainly that can be used as a source. I also found this tweet. I have a new question, which is why you named the article with that format, as sources seem to write it out fully as "Arrest Patrolman Rizal Alih: Zamboanga Massacre". CMD (talk) 06:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: It is the title used by the work itself, with both the film and its posters having a colon follow "Arrest". The addition of the en dash, however, can still be debated, because I was not sure how to write the title with "Zamboanga Massacre" clearly seen as a subtitle; I based it on how the Star Wars prequel film trilogy dealt with two subtitles (e.g. Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones). I am aware of the WP:COMMONNAME guideline, and if needed, I can change the title to what is most commonly used, even when it deviates from the film's title card/marketing. LionFosset (talk) 07:41, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
That reasoning suffices for me. I understand this topic is tricky due to the paucity and inaccessibility of sources. What do you think of changing "22 years" to "two decades", which is a bit more vague but also a bit more dramatic. That would mean it would not contradict any particular source, while retaining the overall meaning. CMD (talk) 07:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: "Two decades" reads good for me. LionFosset (talk) 12:00, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, sorry this has taken so long. Lastly, can you change "his siege" to "his role in the", and rewrite it as a new ALT2 without the strikethroughs? CMD (talk) 12:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: Ahh, okay, sure. So now I know how this process goes. LionFosset (talk) 12:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
I ask in order to make life simple for the promoting editor!
ALT2. CMD (talk) 12:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
  • We try not to put unlinked names on the main page. Yoninah (talk) 15:25, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

My apologies LionFosset, I was unfamiliar with this guideline. I suggest a replacement of the name with a description, such as "a former renegade policeman". CMD (talk) 16:41, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Done, and added "Philippine" as a descriptor to the military base. LionFosset (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
ALT2. CMD (talk) 08:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Actually, that makes the hook better. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 18:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  • OK, I came by to promote this, but I think the film needs a Synopsis section, however short (even one sentence long) to explain what the film is about. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 19:18, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Additionally, the hook fact about being a renegade policeman needs to be stated and sourced in the article, per WP:DYK#Cited hook. Yoninah (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
I have added the renegade policeman description, as I took it from the Inquirer source already in use. CMD (talk) 22:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: As sources for the film's plot is lacking, I based the new "Plot" section on an outline of the actual events the film is based on. I hope it will suffice for now. LionFosset (talk) 10:25, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @LionFosset: sources are not needed for a film's plot. If you saw the film, you can just summarize the plot in your own words. Yoninah (talk) 10:31, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: I actually haven't seen the film yet, and the only available way to view the film is through pirated copies posted on YouTube or elsewhere; as far as I can tell, it either doesn't have a home media release yet ([11]) or it has long been out of print on VHS/DVD. Though I based the title and the ordering of the film's cast on the YouTube copy's first few minutes, I'd rather not go further than that to simply recount the plot for the article. LionFosset (talk) 10:51, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @LionFosset: well, none of the sources in the plot section actually mention the film, so this text is worthlessnot helpful. Yoninah (talk) 21:05, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @LionFosset: Well, footnote 3 is not linking to the right newspaper page, and footnote 4 says nothing about the film. Footnote 5 is ok. Yoninah (talk) 21:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Footnote 3 actually links to two newspaper issues combined (March 3 and 4); the referenced article can be seen by typing 38 for the page number. I'll remove footnote 4. LionFosset (talk) 04:28, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @LionFosset: OK, I found it, thanks. My only question is what crime you're referring to at the end of the first sentence of Plot? Should it be a crime? Yoninah (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: It's referring to the mayor's murder. Why, should another word have been used to refer to the murder? LionFosset (talk) 05:10, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
  • You're right; sorry, I was reading it too quickly and late at night. Thank you for your work on this; I hope your next nomination will go much more smoothly! Restoring tick for ALT2 per CMD's review. Yoninah (talk) 09:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
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