Template:Did you know nominations/Ansel Adams

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:45, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Ansel Adams

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Ansel Adams

• ... that Ansel Adams (pictured) helped establish the photography department at the Museum of Modern Art in New York? Link.
  • ALT1:... that Ansel Adams (pictured) disliked photographer William Mortensen and his pictorialist style so much that he used his influence to keep Mortensen out of histories of photography? Link.
  • ALT2:... that Ansel Adams (pictured) wrote the manifesto for Group f/64? Link.
  • ALT3:... that Ansel Adams (pictured) broke his nose during an aftershock of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and was a mouth breather for the rest of his life?" Link.
  • ALT4:... that Ansel Adams (pictured) was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor in the United States, for his environmental activism? Link.
  • ALT5:... that Ansel Adams (pictured), known for his black-and-white landscape photographs, documented a Japanese-American internment camp during World War II? link
  • ALT6:... that landscape photographer Ansel Adams (pictured) wanted to be a concert pianist when he was a teenager? Link

Improved to Good Article status by Qono (talk) and RockMagnetist (talk). Nominated by Qono (talk) at 22:20, 6 March 2019 (UTC).

• The article is new: Y
• The article is long enough: Y
• The hook is interesting: Y
• The hook is referenced: Y
• The hook is below 200 characters: Y
• A google search does not reveal any copyright violation: Y
• The article follows most other important policies: Y
• QPQ: N
• Needs QPQ before passing. Cambalachero (talk) 14:11, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

• Qono does not have any DYK credits yet, so he shouldn't need one. RockMagnetist(talk) 14:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

• Then it is good to go. Cambalachero (talk) 15:52, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd just like to add that the none of the hooks are particularly interesting or appealing to a broad audience. DYK hooks in general have been really bland the last couple months. Let's raise the bar, not send more pablum to the front page. Hats off to the editors who improved this to GA-status, but it's a damn shame if one of the most famous American photographers can't have anything more compelling to draw in readers' interest. Who beyond photography aficionados will know about Group f/64, let alone care who wrote the manifesto? William Mortensen is similarly a rather obscure name. Good hooks are broadly surprising, counter-intuitive, unlikely to be widely known, and/or outlandish yet true, requiring as little foreknowledge as possible to pique a reader's interest. Mediocre hooks just restate facts likely to be already widely known or that go over the heads of most readers. Who knew the photographer Adams was also considered a gifted pianist? Who knew his nose was crooked for most of his life (which is more unusual than merely breaking a nose)? Who knew he had bouts of hypochondria? See MentalFloss for a good list of concise, "hooky" Ansel Adams facts. Out of the Hooks above, I think ALT4 is the best, but it's structured a little awkwardly (mention of the main subject, Adams, should come before Carter, who doesn't need naming at all: receiving the highest civilian honor alone, regardless of president, is the essential noteworthy info). And DYK admins, if you must use one of the tepid hooks, at least add some relevant links like William Mortensen, Presidential Medal of Freedom, etc. --Animalparty! (talk)

@Animalparty: I'm inclined to agree. I have made ALT3 and ALT4 more punchy. How do you like the new versions? RockMagnetist(talk) 03:41, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I have also modified ALT1. RockMagnetist(talk) 03:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the hooks I prefer are ALT4, ALT3, and ALT1 in that order. RockMagnetist(talk) 21:49, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

• Returning this from prep. I'm glad Animalparty spoke up, because it was exactly what I was thinking, and therefore I've passed on promoting this. IMO ALT1 is petty, ALT3 is silly, and ALT4 is bland. While impressive sounding, the Presidential Medal of Freedom is just an award that the incumbent president bestows on people he admires. Ansel Adams was a pioneering photographer, and this is a GA article. Surely you can come up with something that will attract new generations who've never heard of him. Yoninah (talk) 10:58, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• Yoninah and Animalparty, does the original hook about his helping to establish the photography department at MoMA not pass muster? I think that this will be a surprising fact both to those who are familiar with the photographer and those who are not, given the stature of the Museum of Modern Art. If that's not good enough either, what are the next steps, do we keep adding more ALTs until we think we have a good enough collection to resubmit? Qono (talk) 15:47, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
• Yoninah, you seem to think that you're on the same page as Animalparty, but they had some specific suggestions that I followed with modifications to the hooks. Two of them (the "silly" ALT1 and the "bland" ALT4) are on that Mental Floss page that Animalparty recommended. I don't agree that ALT4 is bland - the fact that he got the medal for his environmental work is not obvious. Nevertheless, in the hope of getting this DYK off the wheel, I have added a fifth hook. RockMagnetist(talk) 16:52, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• @Qono: @RockMagnetist: thank you for your comments and the new suggestions. As a student of photography who developed an early admiration for Ansel Adams' work, I just think something a little grander is in order than the fact that he established a photography department. I also suspect that many young readers will have never heard of him, so more description should be added to a hook. I also think it would be better to put one of his photos in the image slot than a picture of a rugged individual who most people (even me) won't recognize. That said, ALT5 is interesting, though not for an image slot. ALT6 might work, with a little more description of who he was along with an image of one of his classic photos. I read the Mental Floss article that Animalparty mentioned and I think that something about him destroying negatives, or not letting anyone see his color prints, or the sheer volume of images he left uncatalogued after his death, would also work. Yoninah (talk) 17:28, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• Qono, what you're asking for sounds very difficult. For one thing, most of his more storied photos like Monolith and Moonrise have copyright restrictions. If we choose a picture without a story of its own, how do we mention it in a hook where Ansel Adams is the subject? I think ALT5 is a really good one, and I don't see why it's not suitable for an image slot. RockMagnetist(talk) 18:48, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
• ...that Ansel Adams (picture pictured) ... (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) RockMagnetist(talk) 19:08, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
• I did try adding a little more description to ALT5. RockMagnetist(talk) 18:51, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• Fine. I'm not sure about "famed"; maybe "known" is more neutral. Otherwise ALT5 is fine. Hook ref verified and cited inline. Image is freely licensed. Rest of review per Cambalachero. ALT5 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 20:36, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• Changed "famed" to "known" per Yoninah and changed "photos" to "photographs" as I thought "photos" was too informal. Qono (talk) 20:52, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

• Great, thanks. Striking other hooks. Please run this with the image. Yoninah (talk) 20:56, 1 April 2019 (UTC)