Template:Did you know nominations/Alois Ickstadt
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:35, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
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Alois Ickstadt
... that Alois Ickstadt, professor of music pedagogy in Frankfurt, founded for the broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk a children's choir and the Figuralchor Frankfurt, which he conducted from 1966 to 2011?Source: several
- Reviewed:
to come - Comment: Today is his birthday ;)
- Reviewed:
Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 21:38, 22 September 2019 (UTC).
The article is new, having been expanded fivefold only days prior to the nomination. It just about meets the minimum length criteria but it is impeccably sourced. I do not see any neutrality problems nor any close paraphrasing, as far as I can tell given the extent of my German skills. I am a bit concerned by the complexity of the hook. Is it not possible to propose a simpler one? QPQ is also missing. Surtsicna (talk) 10:30, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- ALT1
... that Alois Ickstadt developed a concept for educating choral singers from childhood to adulthood on vocal training and general music knowledge? - @LouisAlain, Gerda Arendt, and Surtsicna: Would did or something in this direction be suitable? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:42, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
- Good idea, but can we also say that he was a professor for decades, or that he founded a children's choir and an adult choir for a leading broadcaster, - it was not just a concept but realized. I am more impressed by the conductong over decades than just a concept. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
- I reviewed now, A Voyage Round the World --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:37, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
- ALT1
- Pinging Yoninah and RebeccaGreen for possible hook suggestions or feedback on how to move forward. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:20, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- @LouisAlain, Gerda Arendt, Surtsicna, and Narutolovehinata5: Thanks for asking - I hope my ability to come up with hooks for others is better than for my own articles! Taking Gerda's words in her last comment, this seems to me to convey the same information while sounding smoother than the original hook. It's quite long, but does convey his achievements, I think:
- ALT2:
... that Alois Ickstadt, professor of music pedagogy in Frankfurt, founded a children's choir and an adult choir for the public broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk, and conducted both from 1966 to 2011?(194 characters) - RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- It's a lot easier to read and conveys the message better, but at 194 characters, I feel it might not meet the discretionary limit (i.e. the point where even below 200 characters, reviewers may find it too long). Perhaps if there was a way to make it more concise it would work better. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:33, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- Could we leave out the "professor of music pedagogy in Frankfurt"? That's what he was, one of many over time, I imagine. Founding and conducting the choirs is his unique achievement.
- ALT2a:
... that Alois Ickstadt founded a children's choir and an adult choir for the public broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk, and conducted both from 1966 to 2011?(151 characters) - Or, I would be tempted to say how long, rather than give the exact years (saves doing the maths!):
- ALT2b:
... that Alois Ickstadt founded a children's choir and an adult choir for the public broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk, and conducted both for forty-five years?(154 characters)
- ALT2a:
- RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:57, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- We can leave out the professor, - I just thought it was a short way to hint at the pedagogical concept behind the 2 choirs. But as you wish. He conducted the children's choir for 50 years because he founded it sooner, but I wouldn't know how to say that without loosing conciseness. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: This DYK nomination has some alternate hooks now - would you like to complete the review, or should we ask for a new reviewer? RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:43, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
As it's been over a week since I pinged the original reviewer, it seems reasonable to open this to other editors to review ALT2, ALT2a and ALT2b. I have struck ALT0 (too complex) and ALT1 (the nominator did not agree). RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:27, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Approved for ALT2b, which I think sounds the most interesting and hook-y. Morgan695 (talk) 04:56, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Morgan695: I like ALT2b too, but putting the German source through Google Translate, it talks about him conducting the adult choir for 45 years, but doesn't mention this fact about the children's choir. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- The website of the childrens choir has that he founded it in 1961, and it was conducted by someone else from 1998. Can we word ALT2 that the duration is only for one choir?
- ALT2c:
... that Alois Ickstadt founded a children's choir and an adult choir for the public broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk, conducting the Figuralchor for forty-five years? - article about Figuralchor promised ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- I've belatedly struck ALT2 as inaccurate, and also struck ALT2c because we want people to understand which choir he directed for 45 years. Given that we don't have that, I've proposed an ALT2d. I think "latter" is sufficient referent back to "adult choir", but if anyone finds it confusing, "group" could be added after "latter". The source for the children's choir doesn't mention Ickstadt at all; we'd need something definitive to say that Mittenhuber took over from Ickstadt when she began directing in 1998. (If we had that, we could do something like "conducting them for 37 and 45 years respectively".)
- ALT2d: ... that Alois Ickstadt founded a children's choir and an adult choir for the public broadcaster Hessischer Rundfunk, conducting the latter for 45 years? "Ehrenplakette der Stadt Frankfurt für Alois Ickstadt". Neue Musikzeitung (in German). 30 June 2006. Retrieved 21 September 2019.Bomba, Andreas (12 July 2016). "50 Jahre Figuralchor Frankfurt / Musik muss live gesungen werden". Frankfurter Neue Presse (in German). Retrieved 22 September 2019.
- Reviewer needed to check ALT2d. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:45, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Morgan695: I like ALT2b too, but putting the German source through Google Translate, it talks about him conducting the adult choir for 45 years, but doesn't mention this fact about the children's choir. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: This DYK nomination has some alternate hooks now - would you like to complete the review, or should we ask for a new reviewer? RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:43, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
- We can leave out the professor, - I just thought it was a short way to hint at the pedagogical concept behind the 2 choirs. But as you wish. He conducted the children's choir for 50 years because he founded it sooner, but I wouldn't know how to say that without loosing conciseness. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- Could we leave out the "professor of music pedagogy in Frankfurt"? That's what he was, one of many over time, I imagine. Founding and conducting the choirs is his unique achievement.
- It's a lot easier to read and conveys the message better, but at 194 characters, I feel it might not meet the discretionary limit (i.e. the point where even below 200 characters, reviewers may find it too long). Perhaps if there was a way to make it more concise it would work better. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:33, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
