Template:Did you know nominations/Aleksey Semenenko
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 05:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
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Aleksey Semenenko
... that Aleksey Semenenko from Odessa, professor of violin at the Folkwang University, was held in Ukraine for a month after a concert on 23 February, and played on a tour in Germany in April?Source: several- Reviewed: 2022 AFL Women's Grand Final
- Comment: a first try
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 15:56, 3 May 2022 (UTC).
I like the main hook fact but I think it's way too complicated. It tries to include too much information; at most I think it should just mention the "held in Ukraine" part and maybe him being a violin professor. That or the hook could be reworded as the following:
ALT1 ... that Aleksey Semenenko, a professor of violin at the Folkwang University, played a tour in Germany in April 2022 after being detained in Ukraine for a month?
- ALT1 is largely the same hook fact but IMO flows better. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:49, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's loosing the context of having been caught in Kyiv when the war began, but suffices for DYK where we shouldn't tell the whole story. I don't know exactly what "detained" means, so can't tell if that isn't too strong, - for me it implies "in prison". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Based on the article it seems he wasn't allowed to leave Ukraine? The article doesn't give more details though: indeed, the article actually uses the term "held" rather than "detained". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- He wasn't allowed to leave Lviv, helped "weaving" camouflage nets and played in schools for children and their parents. If "detained" is the proper word for that fine, - my translator says it's rather "taken into police custody". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:26, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Based on the article it seems he wasn't allowed to leave Ukraine? The article doesn't give more details though: indeed, the article actually uses the term "held" rather than "detained". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's loosing the context of having been caught in Kyiv when the war began, but suffices for DYK where we shouldn't tell the whole story. I don't know exactly what "detained" means, so can't tell if that isn't too strong, - for me it implies "in prison". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe this then?
ALT2 ... that Aleksey Semenenko, a professor of violin at Folkwang University, played a tour in Germany in April 2022 after being unable to leave Ukraine for a month?
- It does leave out some context (such as the fact that he was in Ukraine for a concert) but like I said, having too much information would have made the hook a bit hard to read, not to mention it could encourage readers to find out why he was in Ukraine in the first place. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- I wonder what others think. I believe that readers these days will place Odessa easily, helping to know what connection he has to Ukraine, and the drama that he played there right when the war began might add to interest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:40, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- The original hook wording was simply too complicated and it didn't flow well. In addition, it probably included much more detail than what was necessary to explain the hook fact. I agree that him touring in Germany after what happened to him in Ukraine works as a hook, there just has to be a better way to word that in a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:17, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- I wonder what others think. I believe that readers these days will place Odessa easily, helping to know what connection he has to Ukraine, and the drama that he played there right when the war began might add to interest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:40, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- As for the actual review, the article was new and long enough and is free from close paraphrasing. A QPQ has been provided, and I am assuming good faith for the non-English sources. As I mentioned earlier, the hook fact has promise, but there's probably a better way to word it. Due to clunkiness/complexity issues I have struck the original hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:29, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
ALT3 ... that Aleksey Semenenko, a professor of violin at the Folkwang University, founded the Stolyarsky Quartet which plays in France, Malta, Russia, Switzerland and Ukraine?- ALT4 ... that Aleksey Semenenko, a professor of violin at the Folkwang University, played a video concert in Ukraine to help colleagues who were bombed out? SL93 (talk) 10:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for trying, but what I hoped for wasn't a different fact but a better wording of the drama that this Ukrainian-born German professor happened to be in Kyiv the day before the invasion began, was held in the country for a month (because he had visited with his Ukrainian passport, having left the German one at home), yes playing charity concerts for colleagues and for children, and making camouflage material (see video, "From the stage into the war"), but then was released and able to play these concerts in Germany. The quartet founding seems pale in comparison, and even some charity concert without the context. I'm sorry the story is too rich for 200 chars. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- I posted the two alts in case a rewording doesn't work out. The thing about DYK is that the context is in the article and hooks shouldn't be stuffed full with everything that is possible to add. The hooks may seem pale to you, but it doesn't hurt to get the opinions of other editors who may also have more to add or rework. SL93 (talk) 10:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- (ec) Understand better, - please understand that I wasn't sure if my hope for rewording was misunderstood. I want to go for this particular story - because it's good to tell in the situation, and because I heard him play, and play very well. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- I posted the two alts in case a rewording doesn't work out. The thing about DYK is that the context is in the article and hooks shouldn't be stuffed full with everything that is possible to add. The hooks may seem pale to you, but it doesn't hurt to get the opinions of other editors who may also have more to add or rework. SL93 (talk) 10:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for trying, but what I hoped for wasn't a different fact but a better wording of the drama that this Ukrainian-born German professor happened to be in Kyiv the day before the invasion began, was held in the country for a month (because he had visited with his Ukrainian passport, having left the German one at home), yes playing charity concerts for colleagues and for children, and making camouflage material (see video, "From the stage into the war"), but then was released and able to play these concerts in Germany. The quartet founding seems pale in comparison, and even some charity concert without the context. I'm sorry the story is too rich for 200 chars. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
Given the issues with the "couldn't leave Ukraine" angle, I think ALT4 is the best option here. It's cited inline, AGF sourced to a German source, and is interesting to a broad audience. I think a broad audience would find the fact that a composer held a charity concert for Ukraine-based colleagues interesting or at the very least they'd appreciate it. All other hook proposals are struck. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- we had an edit conflict --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
ALT5 ... that after playing a concert in Kyiv on 23 February 2022, violinist Aleksey Semenenko, as the holder of a Ukranian passport, was unable to leave Ukraine after the outbreak of the invasion of Ukraine the following day?--evrik (talk) 03:09, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- ALT5 is decent but the problem is that it's above 200 characters. If it could be shortened, I can approve it as an alternative option. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:14, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Evrik: How about ALT5a ... that after playing a concert in Kyiv on 23 February 2022, violinist Aleksey Semenenko, a holder of a Ukranian passport, was unable to leave the country due to the invasion the following day? I'm having thoughts on removing the "Ukrainian passport" thing due to length requirements, but it probably adds some context as to why he was unable to leave. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:23, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
ALT5b ... that after playing a concert in Kyiv on 23 February 2022, violinist Aleksey Semenenko, as the holder of a Ukranian passport, was unable to leave Ukraine after the Russian invasion the following day? (197 characters)--evrik (talk) 03:26, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- At 197 that puts it in discretionary territory and personally it's too close to 200 characters for comfort. In addition, mentioning "Ukrainian" and "Ukraine" successively seems redundant considering Kyiv is already mentioned. I think ALT5b has promise but it may still need to be worked on a bit. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:30, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- ALT5c ... that after performing in Kyiv on 23 February 2022, violinist Aleksey Semenenko, as the holder of a Ukranian passport, was unable to leave the country after the Russian invasion the following day? (194 characters)--evrik (talk) 03:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's still a bit on the long side but given it appears impossible to express the hook fact in a shorter way I will let it. For the benefit of the promoter, the only approved hooks are ALT4 and ALT5c, and I will leave the final choice in hook to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:13, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- I should probably unwatch this. ALT5c tells us in many characters when the invasion began, and about a passport, but not where he came from, and nothing about being a professor of violin (suggesting class of playing). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- ALT5 is decent but the problem is that it's above 200 characters. If it could be shortened, I can approve it as an alternative option. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:14, 24 May 2022 (UTC)