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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 14:10, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Akira Fudo

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Created by Tintor2 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:21, 16 August 2020 (UTC).

  • Forgot [[1]]. I did a review of a DYK in order for the QPQ.Tintor2 (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to review this, but none of the hooks make sense grammatically. Could you sharpen the wording? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Thanks. I tried revising them.Tintor2 (talk) 00:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, but only ALT1 is readable. I'll review that. Yoninah (talk) 00:45, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Nice. I think ALT1 is more interesting considering how famous is franchise for portayal Akira's failure of a hero.Tintor2 (talk) 00:49, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
  • @Tintor2: OK, I went through the whole article, trying to edit it for English grammar. I added a bunch of "clarification needed" tags where I don't understand what the word or the whole sentence means. There is also a hidden note indicating one sentence that doesn't make sense at all. What is a "take"? Why do you keep saying reviewers "enjoyed"? After you fix up the article, I will continue the review. I also fixed up ALT1. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 01:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Revised. I meant by take the anime and Crybaby were not made by Nagai and instead by other companies like the ones from Amon or the Netflix series (director Yuasa).Tintor2 (talk) 01:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you. I cleaned up the last typos and think the text reads smoothly now. Here is a full review: New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in online English-language sources. In reviewing ALT1, I notice that in the beginning of the article you describe Akira as an "anti-hero", and later just refer to him as a "hero". Should "anti-hero" be changed? Meanwhile, I'm having trouble finding the sentence with an inline cite which verifies the ALT1 hook fact; could you point it out to me? I'm also wondering if the word "manga" should be inserted somewhere in the hook, because it's not clear that that's what it's talking about. You mentioned it's a franchise but there's no reference to that in the hook either. Images in article fair use and freely licensed. QPQ done. Yoninah (talk) 18:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Revised. The sources are The whole idea of Miki's death comes from ""I can not go back anymore on the way. On the story, if devilman helped without letting Miki die, it would become ordinary manga. I thought that the author would deny the development of the work so far. It is true that the situation has been driven to the situation that "I do not want to die but I can only die"." The other source that comments on Akira's state is this: [https://web.archive.org/web/20060620081843/http://devilworld.org/revelations.html

"The theme of Devilman is antiwar. When humans transform into devils and demons, what they really are doing is taking up murder weapons and embarking on war. The 'indiscriminate melding of demons with humans' that we see in Devilman refers to the draft system, while the death of Akira Fudo's beloved Miki symbolizes the death of peace."]

Also when it comes to calling hero or anti-hero a character, I guess Nona from SNK described him as anti-hero but Nagai never used that name. Guess choosing that statement is more subjective to a person. You think we should remove that quote from Nona?Tintor2 (talk) 20:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

  • You haven't really answered my questions. Regarding the language in ALT1, nowhere in the article does it compare Akira to "other superheroes". I feel you're pulling together comments from the reviews and other places to cobble together this hook.
  • Regarding hero vs. anti-hero, please make this consistent in the article—choose one or the other, but not both. You call him an anti-hero and then quote Nagai in the first paragraph of "Creation and development" calling him a hero.
  • You added "manga" to the hook, but again, the fact that the creators did this to create a more interesting story is not stated in the article; it is only two reviewers' idea. After you fix up the hero/anti-hero part, please write a different hook which is taken from the article with an inline cite. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 20:32, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Yeah, I see your point. Now idea what should be a big hook so despite fixing that the issues you mentioned, fail this DYK. No idea what to write.Tintor2 (talk) 22:25, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

How about....ALT3: ... that Akira Fudo was written by Go Nagai as a dark character who suffers losses as a result of the manga artist aiming to show an anti-war message? ref
@Tintor2: Your last edit did not follow the source at all so I rewrote it. Now the page only refers to him as a "hero". Please leave it. If you would like to pursue your new hook angle, how about:
  • ALT4: ... that Go Nagai toned down the character of Akira Fudo, a human-like demon, in the manga Devilman in order to convey an anti-war message? Yoninah (talk) 17:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Sounds good to me.Tintor2 (talk) 18:00, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

  • Thanks. Since I wrote the hook, we need another editor to sign off on it. evrik, do you have time to look at this? Yoninah (talk) 18:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Alt4a approved. --evrik (talk) 19:20, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Evrik: Thanks, but I forgot to mention that this needs a full review. Yoninah (talk) 19:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • New enough, long enough, paragraphs cited, Alt4a is an acceptable hook, QPQ done. earwig flagged serious issues. Please look at those. --evrik (talk) 19:48, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Evrik: what do you see? Did you unclick the box that says "Use search engine"? Yoninah (talk) 20:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Oh, boy. @Tintor2: the whole second paragraph under "In Devilman" is a copyvio. Yoninah (talk) 22:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • However, I'm wondering if the Blu-Ray site lifted it from us? The writing is not sharp. Yoninah (talk) 22:34, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Just realized that. Guess the actual Devilman article was based on that. Will rewrite.Tintor2 (talk) 22:48, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Gave it a rewrite.Tintor2 (talk) 22:55, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • --evrik (talk) 02:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
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