Template:Did you know nominations/2018 EFL Cup Final

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:16, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

2018 EFL Cup Final

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... that Arsenal reached the 2018 EFL Cup Final against Manchester City today without leaving London? Goal.com

Reviewed: Riders (1993 film)
Comment: For 25th February (the date of the final)

Created by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 17:23, 25 January 2018 (UTC).

Article has been newly created from a redirect, is long enough, and looks to meet policy on neutrality and plagiarism, but not quite on sourcing (see below). I do wish that the references were a bit tidy (removing .co.uk from the BBC, for starters) and consistent. QPQ has been completed. The hook is short, interesting, and mentioned in the article, but the source does not mention Arsenal's lack of non-London matches. I'm sure an alternative can be found. Sounder Bruce 08:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: It does if you look at the tables where it states Arsenal played every round at home except the 1st leg of the semis where they played a fellow London team and i have added another source to the sentence confirming this. I have also fixed the sources in the city paragraphs. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Using the table (and one's own knowledge of the stadiums), it would be synthesis of published material, which counts as original research. Sounder Bruce 01:53, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Fine, I have added more sources to the end of the line which confirms that each round was in London. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:55, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

You're still finding a conclusion from several sources, which is synthesis. Please propose a different hook unless you can find a secondary source that explicitly says that Arsenal completed their run to the cup final without leaving London. Sounder Bruce 06:56, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

I have just added one. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

The new source only mentions that the matches were played at the Emirates, but nothing about the entire run being solely within London. Moreover, Fansided's websites are self-published sources and should not be used. Sounder Bruce 05:13, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Fine, how about ALT1: ... that Arsenal reached the 2018 EFL Cup Final against Manchester City today after playing four out of the five previous legs at home? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

@The C of E: Again, which citation is supporting this statement? Sounder Bruce 03:59, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

This one. It shows them at home for all legs excep the semi final 1st leg. @SounderBruce:. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:04, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Again, I'm not sure if the citation can count as a source for this fact. It lists the matches (in a confusing order, perhaps a better source from a reliable publication is needed) but does not mention explicitly that Arsenal played X number of matches at home and only Y matches away. Sounder Bruce 05:47, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

I have now added a source for Arsenal's fixtures which clearly shows that they were at home. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:20, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Again, the list of fixtures by itself cannot support the statement "Arsenal reached the final [with] all their games until the semi-final [..] at home". A source that explicitly states this is what we need, or a new hook that relies on something different. Sounder Bruce 07:41, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

I've put one in now. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:08, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Finally, a source that does meet the criteria. I'm not 100% comfortable with using Goal.com, but it's better than nothing. The hook will need to be re-worded to match the source (specifically the four of five at home), and the inline sentence itself needs to be cleaned up (you can delete the extra references). Sounder Bruce 00:15, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Done it now. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

@The C of E: The article doesn't match the source. You need to change the sentence to "Arsenal reached the final after playing four of their five previous matches at home" or something similar. Sounder Bruce 08:12, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

It does say that, leg is just another way of saying match in a cup competition in football. NEvertheless: ALT2... that Arsenal reached the 2018 EFL Cup Final against Manchester City today after playing four out of the five previous matches at home?

@SounderBruce:.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Again, it has to be said explicitly in the article and source. The article must match the source. The hook must match both the article and source. I can't approve this in good conscience if the three don't match. Sounder Bruce 08:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: But ALT2 matches exactly what you asked it to be. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

The article doesn't match the hook or the source. Sounder Bruce 08:41, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Changed now. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:51, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Finally approved. Thanks for making the changes, but please try to confirm that your source and article match before nominating your next DYK. Sounder Bruce 08:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)