Template:Did you know nominations/1989 Panamanian coup d'état attempt
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:20, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
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1989 Panamanian coup d'état attempt
[edit]- ... that 10 of the military officers involved in the 1989 Panamanian coup d'état attempt were executed in what became known as the Albrook massacre? Source: http://www.prensa.com/judiciales/memoria-caidos-masacre-Albrook_0_4315068555.html
- Reviewed: Z.A. Ahmed (Indian politician)
Created/expanded by Valenciano (talk). Self-nominated at 14:53, 13 November 2016 (UTC).
New enough and long enough. Spot-checked a few sources, both English and Spanish, and no close paraphrasing evident. Hook checks out. Good to go. Simon Burchell (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
It is not clear why the execution was called a massacre. The article only gives it one sentence and cites one source, a newspaper retrospective. To me, this sounds like POV. Yoninah (talk) 19:03, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yoninah really not sure that I understand your question. Albrook massacre is the common name for it. Why is anything called anything? There are multiple reliable sources calling it this and I don't know of any other name for the event, so I don't see where POV comes in. Valenciano (talk) 23:00, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- Then perhaps you could add a few more sources to that sentence for verifiability. It has been noted before at WT:DYK that focusing a hook on something that does not have a Wikipedia article makes one wonder whether that something is truly notable. If you're not planning to write Albrook massacre, perhaps you'd like to suggest an alternate hook? Yoninah (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- I've added more refs. I initially started the article as Albrook massacre but decided in the end that that and the coup were so closely intertwined that they were best covered as part of the same article. Valenciano (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Valenciano: Excellent work! It looks much better now. And thanks for adding that English-language ref! I'm just wondering why the English-language ref says the massacre involved 12 coup members, while your lead mentions only 11? Yoninah (talk) 20:58, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- I saw that but unfortunately I don't know the answer. The local sources, including the two biggest Panamanian dailes, La Prensa ("el fusilamiento de 11 militares" = "the shooting dead of 11 soldiers") and La Estrella all give 11. I thought at first it might have been due to them counting the coup leader Moses Giroldi separately from others, however this source, in Spanish gives the names of 11 soldiers on a memorial unveiled last month and Giroldi's name is among them (final paragraph.) It also links to an official tweet from the Panamanian government which says "como reconocimiento a 11 Oficiales panameños" (=in memory of 11 Panamanian officials.) Local English sources backed up the 11 figure, so I was inclined to put it down to a misunderstanding on the part of the Sydney Morning Herald. Valenciano (talk) 22:01, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, that happens. I've also come across articles where one source gets it wrong. Would you mind adding to the section under Albrook massacre the fact that 11 were executed, and cite some of these sources? Then we're good to go. Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing out these issues. I've made a few more changes and added refs but.....! I found this English ref which clarifies the details, saying that 10 were executed, while the eleventh died in prison after being tortured. Accordingly for DYK purposes I think it would be more accurate to say that 10 were executed, the eleventh sounds like a by-product of the torture rather than a deliberate execution. Valenciano (talk) 22:10, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, that happens. I've also come across articles where one source gets it wrong. Would you mind adding to the section under Albrook massacre the fact that 11 were executed, and cite some of these sources? Then we're good to go. Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Terrific investigative work! I'm glad that our discussion yielded a much better presentation. I tweaked the number of executed in the hook, as you suggested. Hook ref verified and cited inline. Rest of review per Simon Burchell. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:21, 22 November 2016 (UTC)