Talk:Zorzi

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Proposed merge with Giorgi family

It turns out we have two articles on this family; this one is the older, and also has the same form of the name as most of the more notable members, so suggest merging here. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:54, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Zorzi is the translation in Venetian dialect of Giorgi. The family is the same but the Zorzi branch was not part of the Dubrovnik nobility, the Giorgi (Durdevic, which is the Croatian translation of Giorgi, were. Please don't merge the pages. The Zorzi were incredibly important in Venice, the Giorgi in Dubrovnik. They are part of the same family but developed independent importance in two different countries (the Republic of Venice and the Republic of Ragusa). If you look at the list of Dubrovnik nobility you will find the Durdevic (Giorgi) and not the Zorzi. So we should keep two distinct (yet connected) pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.27.229.242 (talk) 17:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from Marino Zorzi, who is already notable you have several Governors and Rectors of the Republic of Ragusa including

Giovanni de Giorgi (?–?), Governor of the Republic of Ragusa (1281–83).^[1]
Matteo de Giorgi (1329–1400), Rector of the Republic of Ragusa (1372–73, 1377–78, 1380–81).^[2]
Simone de Giorgi (?–?), Rector of the Republic of Ragusa (1806–08) before the unification with the Napoleonic Kingdom of Italy.
Savino de Giorgi (?–?), Intendant of France for Croatia (1810–11),^[3] last Rector of the Republic of Ragusa (18–29 January 1814).
Nicolas de Giorgi (?–?), Chamberlain of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine and Ambassador of the Austrian Empire to the United States (1864–67)

Please stop saying things that are not true and don't merge pages about families that have long and complex history. You have to understand the complexity. Things are not white or black. The Giorgi and the Zorzi, although coming from the same original family (from Rome or Kotor) had their own part of history together and played an extremely important (yet distinct) role in Venice and Dubrovnik. In Venice, the Zorzi. In Dubrovnik, the Giorgi. In fact, history tells us that at one point the Republic of Ragusa and the Republic of Vencie were at war and the Giorgi were on the Republic of Ragusa side and the Zorzi on Venice's side. Same family but very different stories. Keep both pages please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.27.229.242 (talk) 17:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Zorzi are not part of the Duborvnik nobility as the Giorgi are. The Giorgi are a dynasty that ruled for centuries in Dubrovnik (as part of the patriciate of the country in various roles). The Zorzi didn't. They have a common ancestor but they are two separate, yet connected families. Don't mix things up and don't merge the pages. History is complex to understand, don't oversimplify it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.27.229.242 (talk) 17:36, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is so obvious that the Zorzi and the Giorgi are not the same family! Just look at the coat of arms. If they were the same family, they would have had the same, identical coat of arms. Before proposing a merger with no basis, please inform yourself.

If they are different families, why can't you find something better than a website which fails our criteria as a source? You may be correct, but we need reliable sources, not websites. We need to be able to show the differences, explain them. Doug Weller talk 10:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Doug Weller talk: answering to you. That Zorzi and Georgi are synonymous is confirmed by I. Mahnken, Dubrovacki patricijatu XIV veku, I: pp. 213 and 225. Please check. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.26.227.130 (talk) 21:20, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

[1] ttp://www.worldstatesmen.org/Croatia.html

[2] ttp://www.worldstatesmen.org/Croatia.html

[3] ttp://www.worldstatesmen.org/Croatia.html

[1]

[2]

[3]