Talk:Zearn

COI tag (August 2023)

it looks rather coordinated and rather plentiful in studies and reports in which Zearn or the affiliated foundation funded. Graywalls (talk) 20:27, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Graywalls, I placed a connected contributor (paid) message on the talk page. Please remove COI tag from main article. Thanks! Greg Henderson (talk) 23:55, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Request Edit A

• Information to be added or removed highlighted in green bold:
  • Text change to opening paragraph: Change "Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012 and helps elementary school students explore and make sense of mathematical concepts." to: "Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012 and helps elementary school students and middle school students explore and make sense of mathematical concepts."
  • Change: "First used in New York, the curriculum was used as part of statewide tutoring programs in Tenessee and Texas." to: "First used and created by New York teachers, the curriculum was used as part of statewide tutoring programs in Tennessee and Texas."
  • Text Change: "In separate study with The New Teacher Project (TNTP), Zearn data provided comparisons of remediation and acceleration, finding that students who experienced learning acceleration struggled less and learned more than students experiencing remediation." to: "In a separate study in partnership with The New Teacher Project (TNTP), Zearn data provided comparisons of remediation and acceleration, finding that students who experienced learning acceleration struggled less and learned more than students experiencing remediation."
  • Typo Change: "A study by Zearn analyzing the impact of Nebraska's education department's partnership with the company found that studeets who consistently used the platform had 2.5 times the growth of their state assessment scores than those who did not. to "A study by Zearn analyzing the impact of Nebraska's education department's partnership with the company found that students who consistently used the platform had 2.5 times the growth of their state assessment scores than those who did not."
  • Move from History section to Reviews section: An evaluation report by Johns Hopkins School of Education in 2019 found that overall perceptions of Zearn Math were very positive, with the smaller group model of the curriculum a particular strength. Differences in achievement gains were small but "statistically significant" and the report recommended further support be provided for independent learning and individual needs.
  • Add the following under Reviews section: EduRecoveryHub, launched in partnership with the Collaborative for Student Success, The Center on Reinventing Public Education at Arizona State University, and the Edunomics Lab at Georgetown University commended the Tennessee Department of Education and its statewide implementation of Zearn’s math instruction progress monitoring system. EduRecoveryHub also spotlighted Zearn’s implementation in Nebraska. McKinsey & Company also released a report that examines prevailing pandemic-related challenges facing students and teachers and cited Zearn’s work in Nebraska. Finally, Zearn received ratings by individual states including Louisiana, New Mexico, and Utah. Additionally, Tennessee approved Zearn as a curriculum provider in 2022. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Comment to responding editor: Covert editing occurred in the creation of this article. It was originally an undisclosed paid article and the act of UPE was caught just a few days ago. Please consider having a look at the two Zearn sections at User_talk:Greghenderson2006 prior to working on the request. Graywalls (talk) 20:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

References

WP:CITEREF and WP:INTEGRITY are not being followed with this request. The first proposal states Change "Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012 and helps elementary school students explore and make sense of mathematical concepts." to: "Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012[1] and helps elementary school students[2] "and middle school students" explore and make sense of mathematical concepts.[1]" Note that instead of ref tags, we have [1] and [2] used, giving us no idea of which references these are pointing to. In the section of the proposal marked Add the following under Reviews section we have 3 properly formatted ref tags, but they are placed at the end of the section. A perusal of all three references shows that all three do not verify all of the text in this section, thus, integrity is not being followed. The proposed text changes also do not point to any references to be consulted in order to verify the requested changes. The typo appears to have been corrected.  Spintendo  20:26, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Spintendo: Thank you for your response. I have corrected the citation problems. Please review when you get a chance. Thanks! Greg Henderson (talk) 16:52, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Sources 2 & 3 are based on Zearn executive director commentary. Graywalls (talk) 22:27, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

@Spintendo: @Graywalls: Please replace 2 & 3 with: Greg Henderson (talk) 21:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Declined. Those too are dependent. They're Zearn tangled PRESS RELEASES Graywalls (talk) 21:49, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if I follow. The press release is not coming from Zearn, it is coming from a secondary source, Governor DeWine announcing that the district schools will have access to Zearn and it is part the state's plan to help students. The office is saying: “Zearn Math is providing Ohio students increased opportunities to access grade-level math concepts no matter where they are in their math learning journeys.”    Greg Henderson (talk) 23:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS, WP:UNDUE WP:NOTEVERYTHING Graywalls (talk) 02:31, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

OK, what about this citation: Colorado offers K-12 schools Zearn digital math learning platform at no cost by Erica Meltzer? Greg Henderson (talk) 15:06, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Another source for middle school service is written by Alyson Klein — How 3 Districts Are Integrating Tech Into Math Instruction

So the setence would read: Zearn is an American nonprofit educational software organization. Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012 and helps elementary and middle school students explore and make sense of mathematical concepts. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:53, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006 Are all these sources being suggested by communications department at Zearn? Graywalls (talk) 17:35, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, they want to give input on the review and updates to the article. Greg Henderson (talk) 23:10, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Is the talk page being used as documentation of work being done? You've been editing long enough I don't know why you'd have even suggested non-sensical press release based source given to you by your client. Graywalls (talk) 23:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Graywalls: In trying to improve the article, we have suggested Request Edit A, please let me know if the additional (below) sources are OK, or if I should rewrite the Request Edit A to make it more clear?

• Colorado offers K-12 schools Zearn digital math learning platform at no cost by Erica Meltzer
• Another source for middle school service is written by Alyson Klein — How 3 Districts Are Integrating Tech Into Math Instruction, So the setence would read: Zearn is an American nonprofit educational software organization. Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012 and helps elementary and middle school students explore and make sense of mathematical concepts.

Greg Henderson (talk) 17:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Request Edit B

• Please remove the the Paid contributions|date=August 2023 tag on the main article page.
• It has been there since August and there have been many cleanups to comply with Wikipedia's guidelines.

Greg Henderson (talk) 14:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Of all your COI articles, why are you so, to put it bluntly, pushy about the template tag on this article in particular? This is your third time in about three weeks you've asked to remove the template tag. There's no deadline! You didn't even ask what corrections should be implemented when you asked and instead just specifically asked to have the tag removed. At the same time, you've been asking for the insertion of press release based contents. @Netherzone:, you've been quite active working on Henderson related articles. Any thought about the removal? I'm the one who put the tag... and I'm feeling it might be better if someone else reviewed it and make the decision to remove independently of Hederson's persistence.

first time

second time

Graywalls (talk) 07:03, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your prompt response. Let's aim for a mutually beneficial outcome. Since the tag is now placed on the Talk page, there's no need to keep it on the article page, as the cleanup has been completed. Let's put this matter behind us. I've gained valuable insights from this experience, and your guidance has played a crucial role in accomplishing what you do so well. Greg Henderson (talk) 14:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

The article still needs a complete review. For example, the last sentence of the lede reads Zearn holds one of the largest data sets in Wikivoice, but the source attributes this statement to the company's founder: Zearn holds one of the largest data sets on how children learn math, says Zearn CEO and cofounder Shalinee Sharma. This is the kind of thing that needs to be fixed, and it's typical for articles written by paid actors. – bradv 14:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Greg - I appropriately and promptly updated the tag from "undisclosed paid" to "paid" soon after you placed the tag in talk page. I believe it's appropriate for "paid contents" tag to remain in the article and bradv's comment sums it up well. The template serves as a reader discretion advised warning to visitors. The talk page tag isn't visible to article visitors, so that only serves to primarily notify other editors, not readers. Complete review takes time and in the meantime, I believe the tag is helpful, so I am not going to remove it. If another editor believes on their own without feeling bludgeoned by you that it's past its usefulness, I'm not opposed to them removing it. Graywalls (talk) 09:46, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Melcous: @Graywalls: said ". If another editor believes on their own without feeling bludgeoned by you that it's past its usefulness, I'm not opposed to them removing it." It was removed by @Todayisthebestday: today. Why did you put it back? Greg Henderson (talk) 22:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Where did you get the idea that other editors aren't free to object to removal? Graywalls (talk) 22:18, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Greghenderson2006, I reverted (a) because their explanation for removing it demonstrated a misunderstanding of the purpose of the template and (b) because it was Todayisthebestday's very first edit on wikipedia which is highly suspicious - do you have a connection with that editor? Do you know if they have a connection with Zearn? Did you ask them to make this edit? Melcous (talk) 22:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

No, I did not. It seems that you are not honoring what @Graywalls: said. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:34, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

After a review, the account that removed it has no other edits and this is their very first edit not to mention the account was just created today. This is suspicious and quite different from an experienced editor using their reasonable judgment. Greg, did you reach out to anyone outside of Wikipedia with regard to the article, or discuss with your clients specifically to the tag? This is not something I ask without a reason. I ask because of the way you canvassed during Carmel Valley Historical Society AfD and your commentary about speaking with someone on the phone with regard to notability of the subject in Josselyn Lewis AfD. Graywalls (talk) 22:18, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Zearn is aware of the edits made by @Graywalls: and they are trying to fix any issues with the article. They have asked me how the Paid tag can be removed, which is the reason for my Request Edit to remove it. I do know who Todayisthebestday is. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:45, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

You do or do not know who the single purpose account? Graywalls (talk) 22:51, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I do not know this account. It certainly was not me. I am trying to stay in good standing with you guys. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Greghenderson2006 after all the discussions about conflict of interest and paid editing over the last months, do you not think you should have disclosed when you made this edit request that you were doing so because your client asked you to? I believe you should have used the template for COI/paid edit requests, not simply the Template:Edit partially-blocked which hides the fact that this is a paid request. Melcous (talk) 22:57, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm the one whose been steering Henderson requests towards pblock edit request and I did so because I believe that template is for someone who isn't blocked but someone from the company itself asking for changes to their own page. If it's submitted as COI edit request, there's no way of the reviewer to know if the requester is refraining from editing because of COI, or they're P-blocked. As far as I know there's no template option for COI-pblock. Graywalls (talk) 23:01, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Graywalls, I can see that and have seen your question at COI talk. I can understand why there's isnt a specific combo template as I'm assuming this is somewhat unusual, but using this template on requests on all articles without further comment does obscure whether the requests are on behalf of paid clients or not - perhaps it is just an additional disclosure that should be made by the editor in the content of the request if it is paid? Melcous (talk) 23:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

If you'd like to change it, I don't really care. Honestly, I am not sure the most appropriate way to list it. That's why I asked at WT:COI. Graywalls (talk) 04:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Graywalls: like you I'm not sure. My personal suggestion to Greghenderson2006 would be to keep using the partially-blocked template, but if making a request for an article for which you have been paid at some point, you should also disclose that in every request you make. Melcous (talk) 02:52, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I've switched to the COI template. That queue seem to have a more active response time, whereas this has been languishing in the PBLOCK queue for over a month. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

• With regards to Edit Request A, I'm going to decline the request as WP:TOOMANYREFS. There are several instances in the edit request where more than one reference is bundled at the end of a sentence, apparently all being used to verify the exact same requested text (i.e., "Lorem ipsum dolor mit.[1][2][3]"). If one reference is able to verify a particular passage of suggested prose, then only one should be used, not two or three. The COI editor is kindly asked to submit a new edit request which limits the use of redundant references, taking care to ensure that instances where multiple references verify different aspects of one particular sentence, WP:INTEGRITY needs to be followed.
• In the case of Edit Request B, the COI editor has asked for a maintenance template in the article to be removed. My standard response to requests for removing maintenance templates is that, as a courtesy, the COI editor should first ask the editor who placed the template if it can be removed. Since that editor placed the template, they are in the best position to know whether or not the circumstances which warranted the original placement have been corrected. In this case, that editor appears to be Graywalls. From Graywalls' responses on this talk page, we can infer that they do not believe it should be removed, as they have declined to remove it themself. Another editor, Melcous, appears to agree that it shouldn't be removed either. Taking both of these positions into consideration, I'm comfortable stating the consensus is that the article's maintenance template should remain active.

Notes

Regards,  Spintendo  23:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Some sources

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19345747.2023.2174919 https://ies.ed.gov/ncer/projects/grant.asp?ProgID=12&year=all&grantid=5835 Graywalls (talk) 12:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Claims of effectiveness

I am concerned studies and evaluations by sources like TNTP, which is in partnership with Zearn, as well as evaluations that are not fully independent of Zearn is disproportionately represented Graywalls (talk) 23:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request #1

Hi, I would like to make an edit request on behalf of Zearn. The company is no longer working with Greg Henderson but we realize that any internal requests for page edits should be made here and would appreciate assistance editing the page. BywayCaverns (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, to add this information, it needs to be sourced to what Wikipedia decides are "reliable sources" (WP:RELIABLE). The first source isn't allowed because of WP:NOR. I'm not seeing where in the second source it says that the Zearn curriculum is built upon the Universal Design for Learning (UDL) framework, and I'm not seeing in the third source where it says that Zearn follows the Concrete-Pictorial-Abstract framework.

Wikidelrey (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Would like to add the following information to the main "History" section, below the second paragraph:

"Zearn also provides Curriculum Study Professional Development (CS PD), which is designed to teach pedagogical content knowledge to elementary school teachers. The curriculum is built upon the Universal Design for Learning (UDL) framework, and provides features including differentiated pacing, manipulatives, and virtual representations of problems to allow for personalized learning. It follows the Concrete-Pictorial-Abstract framework, in which students are first taught using manipulatives, before progressing to pictorial representations of problems, and finally learning to solve problems abstractly."

• Why it should be changed:

This additional information adds basic information about the educational framework used by Zearn and how it was developed. Readers can also keep the pros and cons of these educational models in mind, which helps to understand the curriculum a little better.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

References

Edit Request #2

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

The opening sentence of the article currently says:

"Zearn is an American nonprofit educational software organization. Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012[1] and helps elementary school students[2] explore and make sense of mathematical concepts.[1]"

It would be more neutral and more accurate if it said:

"Zearn is an American nonprofit educational software organization. Its online program, Zearn Math, was founded in 2012[1] and helps elementary and middle school students[2] learn mathematical concepts.[1]"

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

This change is based on two sources already in the article:

BywayCaverns (talk) 11:24, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Y I've made this update.

Wikidelrey (talk) 04:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Edit Request #3

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

The following should be added to the "History" section:

"In July 2023, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced that the Ohio Department of Education had made Zearn accessible to all Ohio school districts serving students in the 6th, 7th and 8th grades through June 2025 as part of an initiative to reverse the negative Impact of COVID-19 on education."

"As of December 2023, Zearn was available to all Colorado school districts, and was being used by 65% of them."

"In January 2024, the Virginia Department of Education announced that Zearn would be made available across all Virginia school districts as part of the Virginia Literacy Act, which aims to address learning loss and absenteeism."

• Why it should be changed:

These changes would update the article and provide more information about Zearn's usage in the U.S. public school system. BywayCaverns (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done The proposed text violates Wikipedia's policy on promotional material (WP:ADVERT). Perhaps you could reword the text in the first and third paragraphs to not include subtly promotional text such as: "which aims to address learning loss and absenteeism". P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)