Talk:Youth crew

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Who created this? What about youth crew is our ever was preppy? Crew cuts? ...Such bogus claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.223.241 (talk) 19:16, 18 August 2007

I agree. Also, " fraternal machismo and bombastic moralist outlook as well as its New York "thug rock" hardcore sound" Try and tell me this doesn't sound biased against this style of music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.199.140 (talk) 03:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Also when the hell was Black Flag "positive" besides "Rise Above"? They were certainly never Straight Edge. Although Youth Crew and Straight Edge weren't completely mutually exclusive they WERE all but mutually exclusive. Henry Rollins bragged about doing LSD with some junky girl he wanted to bang on Comedy Central's "This is not happening". I'd say that at least excludes him. Chuck Dukowski (bass) was a well known heathen as well. Look at their album covers, not very positive. It would seem someone is trying to shoehorn bands under the umbrella that don't fit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.247.209 (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Melodic hardcore --> youth crew

Not sure why melodic hardcore is listed as a derivative form rather than a precursor. As I understand it, Bad Religion are contemporary with 7 Seconds (both formed in 1980). Melodic hardcore gets off the ground in around '85 with Dag Nasty, where youth crew doesn't really hit its stride until '88. The two are interrelated, but I think that to say that melodic hardcore is a derivative of youth crew is false. Aryder779 (talk) 16:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No one has responded to this, so I'm moving melodic hardcore to "origins" rather than "derivatives". There was hardcore punk with emphasis on melody before there were bands with breakdowns. 67.191.153.112 (talk) 17:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A couple of edits and general criticism

I think the style of this article is a little wordy, and it's sort of ridiculous-sounding compared to the more typical tone of Wikipedia. If someone would like to overhaul it and make it sound less silly, I think that would be worthwhile.

I had to change a couple of things: the article used to say that Youth Defense League was "arguably" or "debateably" connected to Nazism because they had a song called "Skinheads '88" and of course anyone who has been in the hardcore/punk scene for even a little while knows that a claim like that is drawing a totally unwarranted conclusion-- most bands that put the word "Skinhead" in a song-title or band-title or album-title or something like that are actually not Nazis or racists, and you are really slurring a lot of people who would throwdown against or speak out against a racist if you are going to write something like that. Maybe in Mississippi or Idaho they're most likely racists, but sure as hell not in NYC. If you check out the 7 Seconds record Skins, Brains, and Guts from 1982 they call themselves skinheads in the first song and then say "fuck the nazis" in the second one! So that is documentation that may show an uninformed person that even as early as '82 there was usually quite a distinction between nazis and skinheads in the American punk-rock scene (but this is common knowledge in the scene, anyway). Other songs on the same record: "Anti-Klan" and "Racism Sucks."

Also the first paragraph seemed to describe melodic hardcore and youth crew as if they were interchangeable. If you listen mostly to the '88 NYC stuff, which I think is really the seminal stuff as far as how influential it is and how popular and listened-to it is (even if you want to play more-obscure-than-thou and claim that 7 Seconds or Minor Threat is actually the first band) the stuff is not really that melodic at all, with the notable exception of Gorilla Buscuits. Youth of Today-- if you defined them just by what their music sounds like-- is like a thrashy, original/old school NYC hardcore band, almost like a twin to Agnostic Front's musical style. They were pretty clearly imitating Agnostic Front's musical style (sub-one-minute songs with slower "creepy crawly" bass solos, interspersed with ultra-fast Vinnie Stigma-style guitar parts, and really inarticulate, growly vocals- the recipe is all there). Similarly, Side By Side and Bold sound more like Breakdown than they do like Gorilla Biscuits-- definitely not melodic. So the stuff about melodic hardcore didn't seem justified at all, until you start getting to bands like Quicksand, and after bands like Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits broke up for the first time. It's true that 7 Seconds has a lot of melodic stuff, but if you look at the bands that were playing in '88, their influence was more about positive lyrics than it was about how you play the music. Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits, (judging by their statements in interviews) seemed to think Agnostic Front was the Holy Grail of hardcore, same as a lot of hardcore kids doing bands and going to shows in '88. And Agnostic Front became beloved because of their original stuff, not the metal/crossover album they did around that time (which a lot of people don't even listen to). Swan Mc (talk) 00:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)Swan Mc

Fraternity stuff

Previously someone linked the article on male bonding to the reference to fraternity in the article. I took the link out because I felt like it was a bit of an exagerration. There is many a hardcore band that has a line or a song about sticking up for, or being loyal to, one's friends, or complaining about some friend who did something uncool. Hardcore probably features this more than punk generally, and youth crew probably has it more than hardcore.

But I still think it's a bit much to say that youth crew is about male bonding. You might want to just write that this is a feature of youth crew music, but the way I see it, youth crew bands sang/sing about the same stuff as other hardcore bands- their lives and their opinions, and a joke/novelty song here and there. Probably just because youth crew bands are a little more positive, they speak more positively about their friends, too. If they mention their friends, in my opinion it's just because they're people and they have friends, not because they're a youth crew band. People may disagree with me about whether youth crew is about friendship (the bands Agnostic Front and Cro-Mags sang about their friends, too), but I doubt anyone will think it was too much to take out the male bonding link. You'll notice I left the reference to fraternity in, but I wouldn't disagree if someone took it out. Swan Mc (talk) 00:20, 22 June 2008 (UTC)Swan Mc

Fashion and Newer Heavy Metal

Yesterday I took a lot of shady stuff out of this article, but there were some reverts today. I don't want to babysit this article, but if you're checking this out, I think you should be on the lookout for shady and inaccurate reverts. There used to be a sentence that said that youth crew kids were into white Nike basketball sneakers and white hooded sweatshirts. There might have been one or two youth crew bands that produced a white hooded sweatshirt, but otherwise I think this claim is not accurate about the youth crew scene (We've all scene a photo from this era of Ray Cappo or other youth crew guys in Nike hightop sneakers somewhere before, were white Nike-brand hightop sneakers were the sneaker everyone had more than any other?), and sounds like a revert from some ultra-patriot who is trying to make them sound like the Klan (which we all know isn't true), especially in case any black people ever check out the article.

Also there was a sentence that made youth crew sound like the source for new metal styles, and I think we all know that the youth crew kids didn't pioneer post-mainstream metal or anything like that-- instead it was a lot broader thing, and the underground metal scene is a huge scene that always has new people experimenting with new styles all over the world. I'm changing it again (after my change was reverted) to make it clearer that youth crew kids aren't the originators of "nu metal" or "groove metal" or "metalcore" or anything like that, but if anyone tries to lay that heavy claim there again, I hope you'll notice it and change it back. Swan Mc (talk) 16:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)Swan Mc

Eighteen visions?

Eighteen visions is in no way a youth crew band. Even their wikipage says otherwise. I'm going to remove it as vandalism, or attempt to. I'm on a school ip right now, so I'm not sure if i can.98.140.184.254 (talk) 18:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

88 is the point

88 is a code for Heil Hitler, that is known. I wouldn't say that Skinhead is related to fascism but the 88 code is! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.7.125.39 (talk) 18:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Opening sentence contradicts itself.

So I'm not an expert on the subject, but the opening sentence contradicts itself. It reads as follows: "Youth crew is a music subgenre of hardcore punk attributed to bands who were primarily active during the early to mid-1980s particularly during the New York hardcore scene of the late eighties." How can be it "primarily active in the early to mid-1980s" and "particularly during [...] the late eighties"? Can someone clear this up? Tigercompanion25 (talk) 04:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)