Talk:Yoani Sánchez/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Kaguya-chan (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
Paragraphs are very short, especially in the biography section; Some of the sections are very short and would possibly work better as a sub-section (for example, International attention); I also think the article might need a copy-edit (some slang "...turning off the lights on her blog" and odd punctuation "On the blog’s six month anniversary, Sánchez described why she blogs:[27] According to Sánchez, when she began blogging...")
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
Many of the refs are lacking publishers, language (if not in English) and/or accessdates; Consistent date format (year-month-day or Month day, year or day Month year) should be used in the refs; Months (mar ---> March) should be capitalized; two paragraphs and one sentence in Blogging and digital publishing have no source; What makes News Busters, cubasource.org, P2Pnet.net and Poder360 reliable sources?
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Not exactly sure why Father Jose Conrado's letter to Raul Castro needs an except of the letter.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
File:Jose conrado.jpg has no caption and writing (?) on the picture
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Overall, this is an interesting article, and I'm sorry it took almost two months before it got a review. I'm also sorry if the review came across as harsh. I'm not sure if it meets the GA criteria yet and so having only a little experience with biography articles, I'm going to ask for a second opinion. Kaguya-chan (talk) 17:32, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much Kaguya-chan, we really appreciate the great feedback! This week and next, I'll try to work on the items you mention above; some great pointeres in there! Dreadstar ☥ 14:18, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kaguya-chan's observations and recommendations appear appropriate. I would add that the lead needs attention per WP:lead. The lead should be able to stand by itself as a complete summary of the subject. Other people may add their own comments, though I feel Kaguya-chan's judgement is such that a formal second opinion is not really needed at this stage. I'd be happy to look it over again in more detail when all work has been done and Kaguya-chan feels ready to list as GA. SilkTork *^YES! 00:15, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right the lead could be expanded to include more summarized aspects of the article. I could get to it in a few days unless someone else beats me to it which would be fine. Thanks very much for your input.(olive (talk) 03:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Okay, thank you for the second opinion, SilkTork! I guess I'll put the review on hold and check back in a week, then. Kaguya-chan (talk) 18:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA progress

Not sure if this is right, but creating a section to track progress on above suggestions. Dreadstar ☥ 22:31, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Kaguya-chan (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
paragraphs have either been lengthened or combined.Dreadstar ☥ 21:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) - Paragraphs are very short, especially in the biography section;[reply]

The lead has been considerably expanded and summarizes the entire article. May have actualy summarized too much, if so, let me know and will edit accordingly. Dreadstar ☥ 21:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) - The lead needs attention per WP:lead. The lead should be able to stand by itself as a complete summary of the subject [reply]

Sections reorganized. Dreadstar ☥ 00:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC) - Some of the sections are very short and would possibly work better as a sub-section (for example, International attention). [reply]

The identified slang has been fixed and I've scanned the article for any other slang, look clear but let me know if there are any other concerns over slang that's not in a direct qutoe. Dreadstar ☥ 21:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) - I also think the article might need a copy-edit (some slang "...turning off the lights on her blog".[reply]

The identified punctuation has been addressed by adding more content. Article has been scannned for further puncutation problems, a few minor fixes were made and all appears to be corrected now. Dreadstar ☥ 21:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) - and odd punctuation "On the blog’s six month anniversary, Sánchez described why she blogs:[27] According to Sánchez, when she began blogging...")[reply]
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
all refs have publishers and if relevant, access dates for web links. Dreadstar ☥ 21:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) - Many of the refs are lacking publishers, language (if not in English) and/or accessdates; [reply]

All date formats made consistent. Dreadstar ☥ 22:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC) - Consistent date format (year-month-day or Month day, year or day Month year) should be used in the refs; [reply]

Months spelled out and capitalized. Dreadstar ☥ 22:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC) -Months (mar ---> March) should be capitalized; [reply]

The two paragraphs and one sentence are now sourced. Dreadstar ☥ 22:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC) - two paragraphs and one sentence in Blogging and digital publishing have no source; [reply]

Checked the reliability of all sources, removed one due to lack of definitive proof it was an RS. Results are here: User:Dreadstar/YSsources Dreadstar ☥ 19:17, 8 August 2010 (UTC) - What makes News Busters, cubasource.org, P2Pnet.net and Poder360 reliable sources?[reply]
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Letter moved to José Conrado article. Dreadstar ☥ 22:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC) - Not exactly sure why Father Jose Conrado's letter to Raul Castro needs an except of the letter. [reply]
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Caption added. Dreadstar ☥ 22:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC) - File:Jose conrado.jpg has no caption and writing (?) on the picture[reply]

Okay, I'm going through the article one more time for the prose. (As the page keeps expanding ^.^)

Lead:

Lead is now too long and detailed. Refs are only needed here if the material was not already covered (and sourced) in the body of the article, if it is a quote or likely to be challenged. (As far as I know.)

Personally, I would shorten it this way: "Yoani Maria Sánchez Cordero (born September 4, 1975) is a Cuban philologist and blogger. [Moved sentence] ~~Yoani Sanchez was born in Havana, Cuba and received her primary school education before the collapse of, and while the Soviet Union was still providing substantial aid to Cuba.[3]~~ Her high school and university years coincided with the loss of financial aid to Cuba that came as a result of [the] collapse [of the Soviet Union]. Sanchez describes her high school years in which she attended a countryside school, as a time where she felt everything, even her body, was public property, leaving her with a strong need for privacy.[4] Sanchez graduated from university within five years with a degree in Hispanic philology, and following her transfer from the Instituto Pedagógico where she pursued a major in Spanish literature. Her university education left [her] with two understandings; first, that she had acquired a disgust for “high culture”, and second that she no longer had an interest in philology. ~~In 1995 while a student she gave birth to her son.[4]~~

Sánchez, disillusioned with her home country, left Cuba for Switzerland in 2002, and it was during this time that her interest in computer science was established. When she finally returned to Cuba, Sanchez helped to established Contodos, a magazine that continues to act as a forum for Cuban free expression, and a vehicle for reporting news[.] ~~that included for example, Father Jose Conrado’s, February 2009 letter to Raul Castro Ruz.~~[5] [6] Sánchez is best known for her blog, Generación Y (English: Generation Y) that she has described as a way to let off steam rather than coming out of more noble motives. Despite censorship in Cuba, she is able to publish Generación Y by e-mailing entries to friends outside the country who then post them online.[7] The blog is translated and available in 17 languages. ~~In addition to blogging for the Huffington Post, Sanchez has appeared in media articles worldwide such as in Reuters and the New York Times.[8][9][10]~~

In 2009, she was labeled as a counter revolutionary, and according to Sanchez, was kidnapped and beaten by men working for the Cuban government; while Monthly Review a socialist publication challenged her claims.[11]

[She has achieved international fame and multiple international awards for her critical portrayal of life in Cuba under its current government.[1][2]] Time magazine listed her as one of the world's 100 most influential people in 2008, stating that "under the nose of a regime that has never tolerated dissent, Sánchez has practiced what paper-bound journalists in her country cannot; freedom of speech".[12] In November 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama, wrote that her blog "provides the world a unique window into the realities of daily life in Cuba" and applauded her efforts to "empower fellow Cubans to express themselves through the use of technology."[13][14][15]"

Can't really decide if "to let off steam" is slang or not.

Biography:

Did a minor copy-edit here

*And more later!* Kaguya-chan (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2010 (UTC) (continuing)[reply]

Words under pressure. A study of the literature of dictatorship in Latin America. should be Words Under Pressure: A Study of the Literature of the Dictatorship in Latin America. according to her profile (Ref 6)
"In 2004, she founded, together with a group of Cubans – all based on the island – a magazine, Consenso, based on reflection and debate. She also helped establish the web portal Desde Cuba (From Cuba), an on-line magazine and collection of individual blogs, of which Sánchez's was the first.[6] Sánchez began to sign her posts in 2008, abandoning anonymous blogging.[19]" this will be repeated in Blogging and digital publishing and seems to fit in that section better
"That year, she requested permission to travel to Spain to receive the Ortega y Gasset Journalism Award but permission was denied.[20] Her request for permission to travel to an international documentary film festival in Prague, of which she was a member of the jury, was also denied.[21][22][23]" and "In October 2009, Sánchez was awarded Columbia University's "Maria Moors Cabot prize" and was invited to New York to accept the award. The Cuban government denied her permission to attend. Nicholas Lemann, dean of Columbia's Graduate School of Journalism, criticized the decision, stating that "The Cuban government ought to value Ms. Sanchez's work as a sign that young Cubans are ready to take Cuba into a better future — one that will have the free press the Cuban people deserve."[24]" seem to fit better in the Awards section

Blogging and digital publishing

"select list of guests began entering the “Che Guevara Room,” while our “group of impertinents” watched, from outside, as midnight arrived.[28]" slips into first-person plural...maybe it was part of the original quote?
Same deal with "In the end the protesters left with the conviction that we can’t wait to be allowed inside the next debate."

Growing the Cuban blogosphere

What year did Sánchez launch Voces Cubanas?

*More later!* Kaguya-chan (talk) 23:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Kaguya-chan. Good points, and I agree with comments and recommended changes for the lead.(olive (talk) 02:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC))[reply]

I agree, all good changes and additions, if I had time, I'd make them now. I might over the weekend, but please feel free Olive or Kaguya-chan! Dreadstar ☥ 03:37, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And I do like the minor changes Olive made here, has a slightly better flow and fits with WP:LEAD in establishing the notability of the article's subject in the very first sentence. Looking good. Dreadstar ☥ 17:44, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What's the status of this GA review? It's been on hold for a while. Originally things were going really well between the reviewer and writer but there hasn't been communication for a few weeks. Is it near a pass/fail? Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 17:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, sorry about that. Before I can pass it,

1. the refs have to be consistent and list the language used if not in English. All non-English sources marked with correct language. I think the refs are in a consistent format now, let me know if you see any I may have missed. Dreadstar ☥ 04:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2. Words under pressure. A study of the literature of dictatorship in Latin America needs to be Words Under Pressure: A Study of the Literature of the Dictatorship in Latin America.

4. The first paragraph in Blogging Blind needs a source(olive (talk) 20:30, 13 September 2010 (UTC))[reply]

5. Caption for Father José Conrado should be shortened.(olive (talk) 20:30, 13 September 2010 (UTC))[reply]

6. "to let off steam" is slangy and should be changed.(olive (talk) 20:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC))[reply]

And that's it. Kaguya-chan (talk) 20:05, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like we're all done with the above items! Dreadstar ☥ 04:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite. Refs 6, 10, 22, 35, 37, 67, and 68 still need to be consistent date-wise. Ref 57 could also use a cite web. Also sometimes you call the Generation Y by its Spanish name (ref 7). Kaguya-chan (talk) 20:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You have an excellent eye for detail, Kaguya-chan! I think I got all the ones you identified above, let me know if you see any more...thanks for such a detailed examination and response! Dreadstar ☥ 22:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm concern about POV in the "Generation Y blocked" section. Why one passing mention of Fidel Castro's excerpt requires two long quotes from Sanchez and her husband? WP:QUOTEFARM recommends to "consider minimising the length of a quotation by paraphrasing, by working smaller portions of quotation into the article text, or both." --Jmundo (talk) 03:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the two quotes as being problematic from either an NPOV or QUOTEFARM persepctive. The two quotes from the subject of the article and her husband are pertinent and directly related to the article and to the section where they are presented. Each quote gives different information, the two are complimentary and build on one another. I don't see them as distracting, they compliment the accompanying original prose of the article and that section. That being said, I would bow to whatever the GA reviewers think on whether they should stay, go, or be reduced. But, all-in-all, I think they're fine as they are. Dreadstar ☥ 21:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Its problematic because instead of paraphrasing we rely on partisan quotes to summarize Castro's text. I'm not in the business of defending Castro or inserting negative material in a BLP, but the husband quotes are excessive.Besides the blogs, did the quotes received coverage in reliable sources to justify inclusion? --Jmundo (talk) 22:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The quotes are responses to Castro's statements, not a summary of them. The quotes are reliably sourced and notability isn't an issue. Yoani cleary refers to her husband in her quoted statement and says why she wanted him to respond instead of her. If you feel Castro's statements in regard to the subject of the article are not properly represented, then by all means find reliable sources and propose additional content, but don't just remove the actual response.

I'd like to hear what the GA reviewers think, that'll settle it in my mind. Dreadstar ☥ 23:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've looked at the section and reviewed Wikipedia:Quotations. I can really see both sides of the argument. It does seem a little excessive to have two good-sized quotes dedicated to her defense, even though this is her article. I suggest paraphrasing her quote and either keep or summarize her husband's reply. Kaguya-chan (talk) 20:39, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me! I'll do a little work on it and see if we can't bring that into line. Thanks! Dreadstar ☥ 21:34, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alrighty, I paraphrased Yoani's quote and kept her husband's reply. It does shorten the section and adds to its readability. Thanks for the suggestion Jmundo, that led us to a better quality. Hopefully this will satisfy all concerns. If not, I can attempt to paraphrase the husband's quote as well...but hopefully it can stand as is. Dreadstar ☥ 22:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I cut the sentence that start with "I clarify...". I think we get his main point that " receiving a prize is never comparable to that of bestowing one, and Yoani, at least, has never awarded a medal to a corrupt person, a traitor, a dictator or a murderer." We have the link to the source if someone needs "clarification". In general, I must acknowledge that the article has improved. --Jmundo (talk) 00:58, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good! I added a bit of prose with a link to the actual award Escobar was talking about and a few examples of the individuals who received the award to cap off the section and explain more about what was being talked about. Looks good to me, hopefully it's acceptable to everyone else and we can close out this issue! Dreadstar ☥ 02:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can. I'm now happy with the article and will pass it. Good work! Kaguya-chan (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Kkaguya-Chan, and thanks very much for your final suggestions.(olive (talk) 21:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC))[reply]

This is incredible and an honor, thank you Kaguya-chan! Now for the next one...hmmm... :) Dreadstar ☥ 23:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]