Talk:Ye Olde Tavern, Vermont
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Talk:Ye Olde Tavern
[edit]The page Ye Olde Tavern is the correct name of this historic restaurant located in Manchester Center, Vermont. There is also a page called User: Mhbrandt/Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester Center, Vermont. Both pages are listed by me. For search purpases if any page should be deleted it is the Mhbrandt/Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester Center, Vermont. All the information on both pages is correct, but the name Ye Olde Tavern is actually the correct one. Mhbrandt or Michael Brandt —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhbrandt (talk • contribs)
- It generally doesn't work that way. We take the website as copyrighted information, and it takes some doing to assure the Wikimedia Foundation that the Wikipedia editor who says he owns the website in fact is the copyright holder. Edison (talk) 18:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- There are two issues: one is notability, which requires significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable sources, such as books, magazines, or newspaper articles. Mere directory listings are not sufficient. Being on the Vermont Register of Historic Places would go a long way toward establishing notability. Is there a website to which the article could link? Or a newspaper article in the clip file which talks about the listing on the historic register? It does not have to be available online, just listed by paper, date, and title in the references. The basic information also needs to be verifiable, again via reliable sources such as books, magazines, newspaper, or reliable historical society websites. Edison (talk) 18:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- Found a guidebook, "Weekending in New England" (1993) By Betsy Wittemann, Nancy Webster which has some info on Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester, p266, but only a snippet [1] is shown at Google Book Search. That could be one reference. (There was a "Ye Olde Tavern" in Brattleboro VT back in 1924 [2]). I could find nothing about Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester at the National Register of Historic Places. Lots of bed and breakfasts in Vermont say they are listed in the "Vermont Register of Historic Places" but I could not find such as separate listing from the National Register of Historic Places, which does list 8 other things in Manchester VT: [3]. Edison (talk) 18:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- There appear to be some good references (viewable for a fee) to be found from Google News archive: [4] from November 21, 2001, Bennington Banner talks about the Brandts taking over operation ands calls it "state's oldest tavern." The New York Times, January 21, 2000, called it a "historic hostelry" dating from 1790 [5] and gave it 2 sentences in a travel article. The Boston Globe Feb 2, 2003 covered it along with other historic New England inns [6]. The Los Angeles Times, "When Snowfall Quits Vermont" May 14, 1978, says it dates from 1790. (no link available). The weakness of such coverage is that often it is a directory type listing. Checking for "Fairview Hotel" in Manchester, other than classified ads there was just mention of a ladies aid meeting there. "Thayer's Hotel" looks like it was covered in Chicago Tribune, March 13, 1966 in "New England's Early Inns Recall Life in the Colonies" which mentions ".. the pillars and scroll work In front of Thayer's hotel.. " and unknown additional coverage. There were other "Stagecoach Inns" in early Vermont, including one in Waterbury from 1784. Your local historical society in Manchester is very likely to have a file on "Ye Olde Tavern" and its predecessor business names, which would go a long way to create an encyclopedic article. The original text read like what it was, an advertisement, and would need to be toned down a bit. Edison (talk) 19:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- The most recent photo looks like there might be a historic site plaque next to the door. An image would help document its historic significance. Edison (talk) 19:45, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- There appear to be some good references (viewable for a fee) to be found from Google News archive: [4] from November 21, 2001, Bennington Banner talks about the Brandts taking over operation ands calls it "state's oldest tavern." The New York Times, January 21, 2000, called it a "historic hostelry" dating from 1790 [5] and gave it 2 sentences in a travel article. The Boston Globe Feb 2, 2003 covered it along with other historic New England inns [6]. The Los Angeles Times, "When Snowfall Quits Vermont" May 14, 1978, says it dates from 1790. (no link available). The weakness of such coverage is that often it is a directory type listing. Checking for "Fairview Hotel" in Manchester, other than classified ads there was just mention of a ladies aid meeting there. "Thayer's Hotel" looks like it was covered in Chicago Tribune, March 13, 1966 in "New England's Early Inns Recall Life in the Colonies" which mentions ".. the pillars and scroll work In front of Thayer's hotel.. " and unknown additional coverage. There were other "Stagecoach Inns" in early Vermont, including one in Waterbury from 1784. Your local historical society in Manchester is very likely to have a file on "Ye Olde Tavern" and its predecessor business names, which would go a long way to create an encyclopedic article. The original text read like what it was, an advertisement, and would need to be toned down a bit. Edison (talk) 19:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- Found a guidebook, "Weekending in New England" (1993) By Betsy Wittemann, Nancy Webster which has some info on Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester, p266, but only a snippet [1] is shown at Google Book Search. That could be one reference. (There was a "Ye Olde Tavern" in Brattleboro VT back in 1924 [2]). I could find nothing about Ye Olde Tavern of Manchester at the National Register of Historic Places. Lots of bed and breakfasts in Vermont say they are listed in the "Vermont Register of Historic Places" but I could not find such as separate listing from the National Register of Historic Places, which does list 8 other things in Manchester VT: [3]. Edison (talk) 18:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- There are two issues: one is notability, which requires significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable sources, such as books, magazines, or newspaper articles. Mere directory listings are not sufficient. Being on the Vermont Register of Historic Places would go a long way toward establishing notability. Is there a website to which the article could link? Or a newspaper article in the clip file which talks about the listing on the historic register? It does not have to be available online, just listed by paper, date, and title in the references. The basic information also needs to be verifiable, again via reliable sources such as books, magazines, newspaper, or reliable historical society websites. Edison (talk) 18:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Copyright violation
[edit]The text was copied from http://www.yeoldetavern.net/our_story.php . Wikipedia cannot accept articles that are cut and pasted from a website. I stubbed it down. It could be rewritten based on that website reliable sources which are independent of the business, to show notability. Edison (talk) 18:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- I have notified the author of the article here. Theleftorium 18:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
- All copyvio text has been removed, and the article is now well referenced. Edison (talk) 00:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)