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Talk:Yawgoog Scout Reservation/Archive 1

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Too Extensive?

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I actually attended Yawgoog for several summers a while back, and bear no ill will towards it, but, come on. A history of the nature building's heating system? A list of every badge and segment offered? I just don't know that the camp is notable enough for such a ... detailed article. Perhaps it should be cut down a little. Thatcrazycommie 13:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

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Sections of camps really don't need another article, and some of the Kelly article is not encyclopedic. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, merge it into Yawgood. Rlevse 18:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agree --63.224.140.19 02:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merged per nom. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar

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Edited some grammar in the section on Camps. --158.123.160.2 18:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to note minor stuff like this on the talk page: use the edit summary. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects

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I added a redirect from Yawgoog Scout Reservation- since that's what I would assume the article should be titled, as it is the official name of the camp. Should the article's title be changed? --Kenundrum

I just added a redirect from Yawgoog KB1KOI 23:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reassessment request

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I can not upgrade this as it's already a B-class article. To get GA, you have to go through the formal GA nomination process, ditto for FA. I can assess an article as A-class, but this one is not there yet. My first round of suggestions to get it there are: expand the lead to summarize the article, add lots more refs, expand the history significantly (there has to be more than a para worth), and format the images so there's more than one on a line. I do agree it's way better than before and the camps section is very good. Rlevse 20:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Critique

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Segments

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  • The segments take up about half the article and are not really encylopediac.
  • The number of segments may violate fair use due to the number of images.
    • Possible fixes: Since these are local emblems, the council may have never copyrighted them- if this can be properly determined, the license should be changed. They could also be combined into one image- indeed, where is the main patch they are supposed to surround?
I doubt it. Even if they weren't trademarked, in the US things are copyrighted by default and any scans or photos of the patches are almost certainly derivative works (and so FU then). --Gwern (contribs) 19:29 15 April 2007 (GMT)
None of the segments have a fair use rationale. Some images, such as BOY(Yawgoog).jpg, use the deprecated {{BSAlogo}} tag- this now redirects to {{Scoutlogo}}. These tags need to be updated to {{Scoutlogo|BSA}} so they are in the proper category. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Style

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  • If the official name is Yawgoog Scout Reservation, then that should be the article title.
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should use infobox WorldScouting . See Gilwell Park for an example.
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead photo is just no good- you have to click on it to see what is is even about.
  • Scouts and Scouters is always capitalized.
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The DawsonBrownGates photo interrupts the flow of the text and really does not add anything to the article.
The Idea is that the gates are an enterance, and is a good way to start the article out KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Toilets and latrines: Why would someone who has never been there care about this?
What was ment by this part of the article is the captial project that are goning on @ Yawgoog, sorry that the latrines are only mentioned KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Section titles are lower case except for the first word and proper nouns
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a result the three camps' staff share a friendly rivalry throughout the summer and off-season." again- who cares?
Well, it's important because of all the competitions and how it structures a Scout's week. --Gwern (contribs) 19:29 15 April 2007 (GMT)
  • Titles such as Camp Director are lower case unless referring to a specific person
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Scout Oath should be capitalized
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Songs- not encylopediac
The songs are a pivotal part the the experince of Camp KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, the song and cheer are unique to each camp.--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "would grow" "would be named" - wrong tense
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Medicine Bow's color is red, usually in a fire engine color." The whole camp is red?
From what I recall. Most of Medicine Bow was painted red. --Gwern (contribs) 19:29 15 April 2007 (GMT)
OK- I don't get that from reading the text. Makes me think of High Plains Drifter though :-)
  • "Camp Director for the 2007 season is"- Who is updating this for perpetuity? Ditto the other mentions of current staff members.
So start a list. It'll be incomplete, but camp director is pretty important. --Gwern (contribs) 19:29 15 April 2007 (GMT)
Only if it is a notable person, but a list would work.
  • "Sandy Beach's color is blue" I still have no idea what this means.
Each camp has 1) song and cheer, 2) color, 3) mascot. Just like a country has a flag, anthem and language. --208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Native American- BSA style is American Indian
You don't need to get pickey, the locals of Southern New England refer to them as Native Americains KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Campsite names: If you wikilink one, do them all
Not all campsites names refer to articles on Wikipedia. KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "scout executive" should be "Scout Executive"- executive is only capped because you are referring to a specific person in this instance
complete--208.9.213.10 (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "407 outfitters building"- who is this?
It's what the article says: a good sized store which sells candy, ice cream, merit badge manuals and related stuff, camping equipment, clothes, etc. The other trading posts in the three dining halls are basically junk food only and are staffed by only one guy or so. --Gwern (contribs) 19:29 15 April 2007 (GMT)
So the name of the building is "407 Outfitters"? Would someone outside of Scouting know what a trading post is?
Probably not in the Scouting sense of the word; it's the usual Scouting term, but I can't remember ever running across it outside of a reservation. --Gwern (contribs) 22:45 15 April 2007 (GMT)
Exactly- Scouting terms like this need to be defined. 407 Outfitters could be a union or a brand of jeans. --Gadget850 ( Ed)
  • "camp master's"- campmaster is one word

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:06, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Yawgoog records this title as two words, "Camp Master", just like "Camp Director" but I will have to check.

--Mikemarseglia (talk) 15:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the [Language of Scouting, the BSA style guide. This guide has been an open secret for ages, but they finally have it on the BSA home page. I see a lot of variations from this in council publications, especially in capitalization. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never been to this camp. You can't assume that I know the different camps are painted different colors. You have to make me want to learn more about this. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Articles don't have to make you do anything. It's an interesting thing to mention, I guess. --Gwern (contribs) 22:45 15 April 2007 (GMT)
It sounds like you, Gadget850 need to be less picky about the article, and instead (if you have the money or resouces) experence Yawgoog yourself. No article of any size can fully document any thing. After experincing it come back and use that to judge this article KB1KOI 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In many ways, being an 'outsider' is an advantage when reviewing an article of this nature. I still have to think outside it, since I have attended camps throughout the US and Europe and understand terms like trading post. This review is not any attempt to denigrate the camp in itself, but is an attempt to make the article better. If I had attended Yawgoog for the last twenty years, why would I need to look it up on Wikipedia? If I were a new Scout, a parent, or a Scouter just moving into the area and knew nothing about the camp, then this could be a valuable resource. As far as style, the article should meet all the standard criteria in the Wikipedia:Manual of Style as well as The Language of Scouting, the BSA style guide (which I should have noted earlier). The only things I know about this camp is what I have read in this article, so I can't really add any facts; but I can provide some constructive review. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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